AGN: Consolidated Community Clash Feedback Thread - Page 4

DviddLeff · 2013-08-24, 08:09 AM

After watching my outfits clash against Validius Gamers on MLG this was a nice change of style, instead of spending the time insulting the outfits and missing the action with shots of the warp gate you had multiple angles covered and had some interesting conversation.

I also really like the way you interview the outfits members and get their opinion on the matches.

To improve I would suggest as NewSith has to have streams of the competitors somehow available, perhaps as small windows on the side. Is it possible to have viewers choose which camera to watch?

OblivionTR · 2013-08-24, 12:18 PM

The community clash was a great addition - will be reporting more on social media sites about this. The time worked out great for us, as we already have an op 6 PST Wed!

Greenthy · 2013-08-25, 01:52 PM

NON EU event is something something ...
racist!

well at the least it's not truely representative.

Hamma · 2013-08-25, 04:11 PM

Find a solution to latency, because commentary is several seconds ahead.

This is our biggest issue but unfortunately there's no way around this - we are using remote cameras and the lowest I've been able to get delay is about 3-4 seconds. I'll do some thinking and see if I can come up with some solutions during live broadcast.

Also first person is DEFINITELY something we have coming, we just ran into issues doing it this last show.

NewSith · 2013-08-25, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

This is our biggest issue but unfortunately there's no way around this - we are using remote cameras and the lowest I've been able to get delay is about 3-4 seconds. I'll do some thinking and see if I can come up with some solutions during live broadcast.

Can you please share the origin of the problem with the community, maybe we can figure something out too...

From what I understand:

You have 3 cameras.
At least 2 of them are connected via delayed streams.

If that's the case, why not put all commentators into a separate voice program, so thier streamed voices are translated (broadcasted) through 1 streamer, with delay, as opposed to having them all transmitted live through the studio. From my understanding, the program used for streaming is built-in twitch (without 3d party voice), but if you use a separate twitch program on one of the commentators, he can be the host of the party. Based on that, the Engineering Central (aka Hamma studio) will still be able to move cameras around, although without the ability to participate in discussions during game streams.

If there's a problem of the sort that if you put non-host on screen, the sounds get mixed up (like there's a max shooting on the video, but instead there is a sound of roaring sunderer), you can make streaming based on the separate twitch program for everyone. The issue then is whether you can withstand 3 echos constantly going through your audio.

There's also a possible way to solve the issue above by having 4 streams, but I just don't know if it's at all possible to be streaming 2 things simultaneously, not to even mention - one of them being skype*. But I'm quite sure that at the final destination (Hamma's studio) you can show two mixed streams both with audio, so if it's possible at the starting point, the solution is very preferrable.

This way when it's time to show "the mugs" you'll have 5-10 seconds to prep the google+ conference. And above that, you'll be able to set ANY delay on streams, so that you can do tech stuff and rehersing, while the delayed stream catches up with its live end.

EDIT: And, if you decide to put 5 minute delay on the stream, during the delay takeoff point (where you basically need 5 minutes to fill up the stream gap, you can invite a "guest star" of the previous event (team-leader or any participant), taking an interview and/or asking for predicitons for the following match if the player is familiar with one of the participants; or you can fill it up the "Clash Highlights" video I suggested... The only issue you'll encounter then is what to fill the time in-between the rounds with.

EDIT2: *Okay it's doable:
http://help.twitch.tv/customer/porta.../733542-xsplit
https://v1.xsplit.com/forum/viewtopi...=20165&p=81870

inigma · 2013-08-25, 09:24 PM

I was the tactical leader for GotR in the GotR vs TRG match last week. My suggestions have already been echoed and responded to by others. Thanks for working hard on making CC a blast of an event.

I recommend:

1. Bases agreed to at least 24 hours in advance.

2. Make event host responsible for hard spawns. (my best sundy driver was held up doing the hard spawn sundy)

3. Have four rounds (yes call them rounds), with halftime after Round 2. Round 5 SDO if a tie. But call them rounds. Call the whole set of rounds a Match.

4. Have Rounds 1 and 2 attack and defend, like it is now. Then halftime. Then have Round 3 be vehicle SDO, and Round 4 infantry SDO. If a tie, then Round 5 SDO would be a pick by the winning toss caller of any of the above: point capture, vehicle SDO, or infantry SDO; and prohibitions/weapons decided by losing toss caller.

5. Rounds 1 and 2 points should be decided by capture of points by timer end + number of kills.

6. Status of teams posted on an overhead HUD, so viewers can see at a glance who is alive or dead. Perhaps # of kills also shown.

7. Timers on display in the stream, both countdown timer, and round timer.

8. Eliminate 3 screen split. Use picture-in-picture instead with one view displayed as the main, with the other two cameras as PIPs at the bottom of the screen. Then rotating to other camera angles as needed.

9. Would be cool if you rotated to a map view with highlights as you comment on the play being watched (while still keeping PIPs for all three cameras to the right side of the screen).

Good fight TRG. It was a blast.

robocpf1 · 2013-08-25, 11:32 PM

About camera angles and positioning:

I felt, and I'm sure TRG felt at some points, that some of the "greatest" moments in the match weren't shown simply due to our outfits moving fast and in various ways without the cameras knowing. I remember at one point GOTR made a really clutch drop to seize [A] during Round 1, and it was an epic moment for us that ended up not being shown, referenced simply as "Oh, GOTR has now taken Point [A]".

During our FNO, Maggie and I shared the same frustration. She would see something happening a few seconds too late and rush over only to catch the very end of the action, so we developed a system where anytime we thought something meaningful or intense might occur, I'd send a /tell to her and she could position beforehand. Regardless of what happened after that, the footage would show sort of what "we wanted it to show", win or lose. If we won the engagement, it would be something GOTR clearly wanted shown, and if we lost, inversely, I'm sure TRG would like to see that specific clip. So even if a glorious MAX rush that we had set up to be an epic victory ended up with us getting wiped, the show still gets fantastic footage.

So my suggestion is to allow the ops leads to send a quick /tell or a voice notification to their assigned cameraperson to let them know "Hey, we're about to drop on [A]" or "Hey, come follow us out of the Spawn Room, we're MAX crashing" so that when there is something one outfit or another wants to show, it will be shown.

Hamma · 2013-08-26, 11:08 AM

NewSith,

We use a private streaming server for the feeds so I'm not utilizing Twitch to get the commentator feeds (or future FPS feeds). I have 2x observer cams remote (Noxx and Deringer) and 2x live observer cams via capture card. I cannot delay their audio without causing issues on the live feeds. So unfortunately dealing with a 3 second or so delay is our only option without having everyone in the same room.

No matter how we handle it we are going to be stuck with some delay somewhere unfortunately.

NewSith · 2013-08-26, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

NewSith,

We use a private streaming server for the feeds so I'm not utilizing Twitch to get the commentator feeds (or future FPS feeds). I have 2x observer cams remote (Noxx and Deringer) and 2x live observer cams via capture card. I cannot delay their audio without causing issues on the live feeds. So unfortunately dealing with a 3 second or so delay is our only option without having everyone in the same room.

No matter how we handle it we are going to be stuck with some delay somewhere unfortunately.

So, in other words, there're 2 cams feeding video directly and two delayed cams?

I have a few questions than:
Is it possible to launch 2 studio cams through a proxy, creating the same delay on the studio cams?
Is it possible to delay audio-only in your studio?

Technically what I propose is - syncing all 4 cameras and delaying the studio audiofeed while NOT delaying the videofeed.

The only problem I see you encountering is that your faces will be out of sync when talking, but as I said before there's no need to sahow your webcams during the battle, and during non-battle time you can remove the delay from the audio. It will take you exactly around 3 seconds to say: I'm now removing the delay, removing the phrase with the removal of the delay.

Also, why won't you try and use twitch, at least not during live? As far as I know you can have private streams in there.

Calista · 2013-08-26, 12:23 PM

To be quite honest with you Hamma I hope SOE commisions Jace Hall's crew to replace FNO. From what I have seen they have an impressive build out that you cannot match. Only MLG comes close.