Vanu weapon recoil

[WiteBeam]

Originally Posted by Hosp

*Sigh* Another OP who decides not to use the search function.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...t=45122&page=2

Wasnt really the OPs original question.

[Hosp]

Originally Posted by WiteBeam

Wasnt really the OPs original question.

True. But it does explain EVERYTHING quite nicely.

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by Reizod

Talk about what? Please show me where I talked about something I'm NOT suppose to???

Oh, and don't be so jumpy... take a breath. There have been no LAWS broken bud.

I was making a joke.

[Rasui]

Originally Posted by Hosp

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.

So basically the NC have the weapons the VS are supposed to have, with the added perk of also hitting harder? I haven't used them in-game, but on paper this sounds awful.

[EisenKreutzer]

Originally Posted by Hosp

I'll retype soon(im at work), but accuracy falloff is the distance at which bullet drop would become so great that it's hard to compensate. With VS having none, it pushes the TRs up a little, but the NCs down a little.

And yes, photubucket likes to resize things down. It's annoying for anything with normal sized text.

For those who couldn't read:

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.

Something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere was if the various empires will have effective cutoff ranges to their weapons. This was seen in PS1 with a few weapons where it was possible to sit outside of some ranges while looking at the poor guy trying to shoot you and you're not taking any damage because the rounds disappear.
Reload times and an Empire whose weapons have the longest effective range before cutoff (if cutoffs exist) would throw off the balance of this analysis and potentially create an overpowered empire.

NOTE* This obviously only applies to "Gun/Cannon" weapons and not launchers, shotguns, flame throwers, rockets etc.

I honestly can't tell if this answers my question or not.

Also, how was I supposed to find this with the search function?

[Reizod]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

I was making a joke.

Ah, I see. Suggestion for future reference, make use of the Smilies when you are joking not just when being sarcastic. This may help avoid confusion, that's why they were invented.

[OutlawDr]

Wow lots of confusion. I wonder what the devs mean by "Recoil". Is it reticule bounce or reticule bloom (cof)? Maybe both. Btw in most FPS games now, ADS is mostly governed by reticule bounce, while at the hip is mostly reticule bloom (though each may have a bit of both).

Then there is "accuracy"? Ohh boy. So accuracy is bullet drop???

So Vanu have low bullet drop...but high initial recoil and sustained recoil. I'm pretty sure high recoil means "bad" recoil. Its just too bad that high in the other categories is "good"...which is confusing.

[EisenKreutzer]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

Wow lots of confusion. I wonder what the devs mean by "Recoil". Is it reticule bounce or reticule bloom (cof)? Maybe both. Btw in most FPS games now, ADS is mostly governed by reticule bounce, while at the hip is mostly reticule bloom (though each may have a bit of both).

Then there is "accuracy"? Ohh boy. So accuracy is bullet drop???

So Vanu have low bullet drop...but high initial recoil and sustained recoil. I'm pretty sure high recoil means "bad" recoil. Its just too bad that high in the other categories is "good"...which is confusing.

...

o.O

This thread is getting more and more confusing.

According to my current understanding, Vanu weapons are supposed to have good accuracy and no bullet drop. I don't know what this means in terms of bullet spread and recoil.
That distinction is important to me, because while I can compensate for recoil, compensating for bullet spread is impossible.

[avpmaster]

Originally Posted by Reizod

^^^This

The high/good accuracy means low/non existent recoil. To give something the label of high accuracy, the amount of recoil is considered. They go hand and hand.

So hopefully this answers your questions OP.

...What? No it doesn't. It's actually almost the opposite.

Accuracy is basically where the bullets will drop, depending on where the crosshair is. Recoil is how jumpy the crosshair is. The two are unrelated.

Also, just to prove my point:

Sniper rifles. Accurate, but high recoil.

[Mythoclast]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

Wow lots of confusion. I wonder what the devs mean by "Recoil". Is it reticule bounce or reticule bloom (cof)? Maybe both. Btw in most FPS games now, ADS is mostly governed by reticule bounce, while at the hip is mostly reticule bloom (though each may have a bit of both).

Then there is "accuracy"? Ohh boy. So accuracy is bullet drop???

So Vanu have low bullet drop...but high initial recoil and sustained recoil. I'm pretty sure high recoil means "bad" recoil. Its just too bad that high in the other categories is "good"...which is confusing.

High accuracy being good and high recoil being bad is confusing? High pain=bad high pleasure=good.

[Flaropri]

Accuracy: Accuracy relates to bullet spread. Some weapons may or may not lose accuracy when fired and/or when moving. Directly related to "Cone of Fire."

Recoil: Recoil moves the reticule when the weapon is fired. There are both short term recoil (burst) and long-term recoil (sustained) considerations in this game, where some factions can handle recoil at length in different ways.

Bullet Drop: How quickly a bullet will lose height over distance. It effects accuracy, but is still separate.

Damage: Damage per shot. This is more obvious, but I just want to avoid the confusion that might arise for some people that might think it refers to damage per second.

Rate of Fire: Does exactly what it says on the tin.


All of these are separate and distinct stats for a weapon. However, Recoil and Loss of Accuracy are often tied together, but that doesn't need to be the case.

[EisenKreutzer]

+1 for Flaropri.

[OutlawDr]

I was using older, less use terms in order to make some sense of this, since it doesn't look like the PS2 devs were using terms as they are used in other games for this poster.

Bullet spread = cone of fire = reticule bloom
Recoil = reticule bounce

I'll use help from blacklight, since they are the least vague FPS game when it comes to weapon stats.

Bullet spread = angle at which the bullet leaves the center of the reticule. There is usually a minimum and maximum value depending on certain actions: crouching, prone, moving, jumping, sustained fire

Recoil = distance the reticule is displaced vertically after being fired. sustained firing often increases recoil over time. there can be some horizontal displacement as well, but not as pronounced as the vertical.

So does "accuracy" on this poster mean bullet spread or bullet drop? I think they mean bullet drop just by how they describe it.
Does "recoil" have the same definition it does in other games? Who knows...

[WiteBeam]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Accuracy: Accuracy relates to bullet spread. Some weapons may or may not lose accuracy when fired and/or when moving. Directly related to "Cone of Fire."

Recoil: Recoil moves the reticule when the weapon is fired. There are both short term recoil (burst) and long-term recoil (sustained) considerations in this game, where some factions can handle recoil at length in different ways.

Bullet Drop: How quickly a bullet will lose height over distance. It effects accuracy, but is still separate.

Damage: Damage per shot. This is more obvious, but I just want to avoid the confusion that might arise for some people that might think it refers to damage per second.

Rate of Fire: Does exactly what it says on the tin.


All of these are separate and distinct stats for a weapon. However, Recoil and Loss of Accuracy are often tied together, but that doesn't need to be the case.

You forgot SOEs definitions.
Very High=Very Low
Very Low=Very High

[FPClark]

Dont worry. The gunplay has been getting good reviews from the people playing the game.