As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1...

[MrMak]

Wel judgeing by the fact almost everyone in this thread thinks their faction's tank is the worst of the worst and the other ones are OP id say the tanks are blanced.....

[Baneblade]

I don't think the Vanguard is the worst. I think the Mag is the worst, the control method sucks balls. Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of all three seems to be pretty rare among players.

[Osskscosco]

Just fought a vanguard, i could shot it 4 times before turned to me. He popped shields and i had red health when it ended just from the enforcer and vanguard cannon.

That joke of a shield should drop from a set amount of damage.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Osskscosco

Just fought a vanguard, i could shot it 4 times before turned to me. He popped shields and i had red health when it ended just from the enforcer and vanguard cannon.

That joke of a shield should drop from a set amount of damage.

You need to fill in some blanks about what the situation was and what exactly happened.
What kind of certs do you have in your magrider?
What kind of cannon were you using?
Did you have a second gunner?
What is your secondary weapon?

Also there are two situations that drop a vanguards shield.
1-time expires
2-the shield absorbs X amount of damage and fails

"He popped shields and i had red health when it ended just from the enforcer and vanguard cannon", this tells me almost everything I need to know about the vanguard. What kind of armor did the vanguard have? Where were you shooting this vanguard at..ie side, rear, front?

[Calisai]

Originally Posted by Shamrock

Running Magburner instead of smoke to break locks is a seriously bad idea (unless you enjoy dying in under a minute) in most armour fights, maybe less so against NC, but very few people swap out load-outs according to what faction they are facing.

Some people can still make the Magrider work fairly well, but I mostly see a lot of stock mags getting chewed up. Personally I swapped to using a lightning months ago.

Swap-out loadouts... maybe not, but by looking at the map and figuring out which faction you are more likely to meet, you can pick the correct loadout to begin with.

I have a "turtle" loadout that has Front Armor, Smoke, Rival Chassis, Halberd and PC. It's meant to fight TR... mostly striker infantry, but also be able to handle the occasional prowler.

Whereas, my "shark" loadout, is Stealth, Magburner, Racer Chassis, Saron and FPC. It's meant for killing all vehicles... by flanking and hitting from side or behind at CQC ranges.

I also have a long-range Rival/Auto-repair/Halberd/FPC loadout for long-range ridge to ridge fighting. (not a big fan of this playstyle, so this loadout gets little use, I'd rather work on flanking the established front lines in this case)

Originally Posted by igster

Properly equipped and driven by a good crew - all the tanks will have good fairly even battles. Most outcomes are determined by the experience of the crew not the vehicle that they are in.

Chances are most of the time now in a tank (any faction) you'll die to
- a good crew getting a jump on you
- imbalanced situations like
- a hacked wall turret near a base
- sneaky engineer setting up a snarky turret
- a wolf pack team swarming you with a co-ordinated armor or air column
- the ever present unchallenged ESF dominance.
- snidey tank mines

Most battles I am in are determined prior to the first shot being fired. Either I get the jump on them and/or are positioned correctly to have the advantage, or they have the position and the shield (NC) or raw DPS (TR) overwhelm me. It's not the tanks fault at that point, it's mine. It's all about awareness of the battle and putting your tank in the best position possible. Or accepting that if you try and fight from a bad position, that you'll lose most of the time.

Originally Posted by Mustakrakish

How difficult is it to kill a shielded Vanguard that isn't being driven by an "experienced and highly certed" driver?

The only conclusion I can draw here is that you're not really playing to the Magrider's strengths (i.e. range, maneuverability, main gun stability) very well if the shield is such an insurmountable obstacle for you.

A badly timed shield won't help a vannie out when I engage them. Half the time, I can usually bait them into popping the shield too early... where I have cover to duck behind while it runs out.

However, I can see the instance where two equally, but lesser skilled drivers fighting each other would have the shield play a massive role in determining the outcome of the fight. This is where the shield probably feels impossible to overcome. Newer drivers try and drive the Mag like a Tank. It needs to be driven more like infantry. Either like a HA (popping out from behind cover to shoot off it's heavy rockets, then ducking back) or like LA (using its abilities to gank people from unexpected angles either medium range or from behind).

Sitting out toe-to-toe against either of the other tanks trading one for one blows it will lose most times. Even worse, rolling headlong into a zerg fight expecting to explode everything in front of you like you are invincible. Both are the signs of an inexperienced Mag driver.

[almalino]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I don't think the Vanguard is the worst. I think the Mag is the worst, the control method sucks balls. Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of all three seems to be pretty rare among players.

But, but..... MAgrider control method is the same as infantry control. Left right forward backward, strafe and rotation. Do I miss something?

[War Barney]

Maybe he likes really slow clunky tannks that stop dead if they run into a pebble instead of one that is very mobile, the only 1 with turbo and just hovers over those tank stopping pebbles. I can see how.. I mean... er... I honestly tried really hard to think up a way he could prefer the controls of other tanks but I can't think of it.. the mag is just 100% better in every way in terms of its control and ability to dodge attacks. Its not even like anybody could try to deny that so why he's saying that.. it baffles me.

then again people keep saying the NC MAX is fine or OP when tests have been done showing it has all the worst guns, some people are just crazy

[hashish]

Unfortunately guys, at the end of the day.. You have Vanguard zergs and prowler zergs that can sweeep across the map and rinse everything.. which is cool..

But you will NEVER EVER see Magrider zergs accomplishing something like that EVERRR ! Maybe once in a blue moon ! lol

People just dont use them like they use prowlers or vanguards.. because they SUCK

Even 10 v 10 Mag vs Prowler/Vanguard.. There is a very low chance of VS winning, and that will only happen if you have well certed mags with a relativity competent crew.. Otherwise you just get fucccked in like 2-3 shots lol

Hence why people tend not to use them.. Because the mass majority of players are not sooo high level and dont have such well certed mags..

The ones that DO.. Dont see the point in using their well certed mags because they are so few of them and DO NOT stand a chance !

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by almalino

But, but..... MAgrider control method is the same as infantry control. Left right forward backward, strafe and rotation. Do I miss something?

Originally Posted by War Barney

Maybe he likes really slow clunky tannks that stop dead if they run into a pebble instead of one that is very mobile, the only 1 with turbo and just hovers over those tank stopping pebbles. I can see how.. I mean... er... I honestly tried really hard to think up a way he could prefer the controls of other tanks but I can't think of it.. the mag is just 100% better in every way in terms of its control and ability to dodge attacks. Its not even like anybody could try to deny that so why he's saying that.. it baffles me.

Both of you are a little off, I don't dislike the way the Mag can maneuver (well, I can't say I like it when I'm up against one)... I just don't like the way the controls interface with it. You can be baffled all you want, doesn't change anything. I prefer driving the Vanguard over the Mag in 100% of scenarios.

[Maginnis]

Originally Posted by SternLX

1) Using Magburner means you have to put your vulnerable soft and squishy ass end towards the enemy. Or the very least a side and portion of rear if choosing a diagonal escape vector.
2) A tracked vehicle can rotate it's main body to keep it's rear away from a Circle strafing Magrider.


Again, the downside to using Magburner is pointing your ass at the enemy to get away. I could see this as a valid argument if Magburner accelerated us in any direction chosen on the X plane.

The best solution I can think of and I have mentioned it during Beta(which fell on deaf ears)since we can't rotate the main cannon separate of the main body like the Tracked MBT's is to allow the Magrider to have the same top speed in reverse as our forward speed.

One of the main points by the OP is that Vanguards can turn and run at full speed while keeping their main cannon(or both weapons if 2 manning it) on the Enemy. Magrider can only hope to get behind some kind of cover quickly and then turn around to bring it's main to bear. I've been gunned down by fleeing Vannies with Shields up on more than a few occasions in the beginning. I learned my lesson so I don't bother chasing them any more.

This isn't entirely fact.

1) A Van/Prowler can rotate to keep the rear away from a single enemy Magrider, true. The rotational speed necessary depends on the distance of the Magrider, however. The truth of this scenario is that success or failure of the Van to protect its flank will depend on:

a) Terrain/positioning - a Mag which attacks on uneven terrain may have an advantage, as rotating a Vanguard on uneven ground will affect the Vanguard's firing arc more than a Mag (significantly)

b) both tanks' chassis - If the Mag is running Rival and the Van with Racer, a Mag at close range will be able to circle-strafe faster than the Van can rotate. Additionally, the Mag can literally drive over the Van (or past it) which would force the Van to swing its turret 180 degrees to re-acquire, and given the rotational speed of the turret, this isn't necessarily easy, especially when you factor re-aiming.

c) the presence of other friendly or enemy units/turrets, etc. This comes down to situational awareness of the overall scenario, modified by the armor configuration of the tank (front, side, etc).

d) Vanguard cannons have recoil, and it's not only vertical. A Van shooting sideways has to adjust for each shot. A Magrider doesn't. This effectively gives the Mag an accuracy advantage, especially in moving fights over non-flat terrain, where the Vanguard driver has to adjust for movement of the tank, terrain-related gun movement and also recoil.

The downside for a Mag driver is projectile speed. The Mag AP "shell" is slower, close-medium range, it's not a huge problem on slower moving or stationary targets.

One advantage is that the Mag can climb rock formations and place itself in areas which regular MBTs cannot go w/o without risk or perhaps at all. As another person here said, this gives the Mag pilot the ability to use cover more like infantry, whereas a Prowler or Vanguard will either get stock or fall down (and be vulnerable if they don't explode from flipping over).

The honest truth is that I'd be more afraid of Harassers in a Mag than a Vanguard, but the ability to drift and turbo *might* be an advantage in that it would help to make the Mag a more difficult target to hit, especially for the average Halberd gunner.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by hashish

Unfortunately guys, at the end of the day.. You have Vanguard zergs and prowler zergs that can sweeep across the map and rinse everything.. which is cool..

But you will NEVER EVER see Magrider zergs accomplishing something like that EVERRR ! Maybe once in a blue moon ! lol

People just dont use them like they use prowlers or vanguards.. because they SUCK

Even 10 v 10 Mag vs Prowler/Vanguard.. There is a very low chance of VS winning, and that will only happen if you have well certed mags with a relativity competent crew.. Otherwise you just get fucccked in like 2-3 shots lol

Hence why people tend not to use them.. Because the mass majority of players are not sooo high level and dont have such well certed mags..

The ones that DO.. Dont see the point in using their well certed mags because they are so few of them and DO NOT stand a chance !

I saw it tonight.. I saw it last night.. I see it every night on woodman cos our mag pilots apparently know how to use their mags. It works VERY well blowing the crap out of everything.

I don't know if your just lying to try and get your already fine perhaps verging on OP due to its insane mobility thus making it the tank of choice for good players (harder to use but better when you know how) or if you are on a server of bad players

[camycamera]

yeah, the vangard's shield is a little OP. speed should be reduced by 25%, as should the turning speed of both primary and secondary turrets to be lowered by 25% a mag could easily out counter that.

but mags are scary.