DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WHO?

[Malorn]

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle. The reasons are:

1) It adds more value to the Sundy, so all the players who certed one up and have weapons and cosmetics will get more mileage out of their investments. It's essentially a support vehicle, so giving the support vehicle more value made more sense than creating a new support vehicle.

2) The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.

[Carbon Copied]

Originally Posted by Malorn

-snip-

I honestly don't see the problem of the Sunderer being used if your plan is to make it look aesthetically different i.e increasingly more distinct from variant to variant. However:

• Why does using the Sunderer to do everything give it more value? It costs the same resources and cool down as if you were to pull AMS/Repair/Ammo variants - no dynamic costing based on loadouts used which makes this point of adding value pretty much void when you can pull it anytime and where.

• Seats 12 no matter what utility you put on it - wheres the logistic management, deeper customization and risk/reward of that? If I chose to AMS/ANT my sunderer (as example), shouldn't there be sacrifices to accommodate this and create the "you pull an S-AMS and I'll pull the escort Sunderer?" decision/thinking - the fact it can defend itself and essentially not rely on third party support I believe is what makes it considerably more boring in the first place.

You also should think about bringing the Sunderer design wise back into context of the game - why is it bigger than an MBT and have all the futuristic look, feel and handling of a Renault E-Space? (this by the way isn't a good thing)

Overall you can sugar coat the changes and decisions all you please but it doesn't change the fact its largely boring, soul-less and lacking any depth. Although that's a tune the masses have come to dance to quite well by now.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle. The reasons are:

1) It adds more value to the Sundy, so all the players who certed one up and have weapons and cosmetics will get more mileage out of their investments. It's essentially a support vehicle, so giving the support vehicle more value made more sense than creating a new support vehicle.

2) The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.

It would also be nice if AMS/ANT Sunderers and such were not fully combat capable transports with full armaments.

[Calisai]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.

Please consider making a smaller ANT module for the Harasser (that takes the place of the Rumble seat & possibly gunner as well). Even if it's a smaller capacity... the Harasser is just plain fun to drive... making ANT runs be much more enjoyable.

I think a High-capacity, higher damage soaking, slower moving Sundy ANT, combined with a small-capacity, low damage soaking, but very fast Harasser ANT may make for some interesting play.

[Rivenshield]

Originally Posted by Malorn

The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

/mulls it over

/shrugs

Okay. I'll take your word for it. Yours and yours alone, maestro.

I still have a bad feeling about driving that slow, ungainly, slipping-sliding underpowered parade float of a vehicle from the warp gate to... well, to anywhere. It'll make the ANT runs of yesteryear look like happy fun time. The old ANT was demonstrably faster than a Sundie and the continents were smaller. It was also air-portable. I just can't see how this is going to work.

So I'll take it on faith. Multiple nanite-nodes scattered across the continent, perhaps...?

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

The old ANT was demonstrably faster than a Sundie and the continents were smaller.

Actually... the old ANT was as slow as a running MAX. The new ANT was faster than a Sundie. The PS2 Sundie is plenty fast, it just lacks decent ability to negotiate any kind of terrain.

A slow ANT is for the best in any case, so long as the rewards for running ANTs are sufficient compensation for the trouble.

As someone who actually drives the slowest vehicle in the game across continents all the time, it won't be much trouble to drive a Sunderer from the warpgate to fill up bases, I'd be more concerned about capacity. The PS1 ANT could fill up 2.5 bases before needing to refill.

[Blynd]

Well that's nice to at least be told why your going with the windy and that you do want a visual difference between them and regular sundys. I'd love to see a visual difference between an ams su du and an armour one.

[BlaxicanX]

You probably won't be ABLE to pull an AMS/ANT sunderer. I don't know why that is so hard a concept to grasp.

The ANT module will almost certainly be in the same utility category as AMS, ammo, repair, etc. So that means that you'll be able to choose ONE of those utilities and nothing else. It can't be an ANT and an AMS.

So the only thing it'll still have is guns and a 12-man carrying capacity. Who the hell cares? Guns will be necessary because this isn't Planetside 1- ANY vehicle without guns is a dead vehicle in this game, sans maybe the flash which is so small and fast that it can escape detection.

No one ever uses the 12-man transport capacity for any serious transportation or assaulting, they use the AMS, so the vehicle having said capacity is hardly giving it duel-roles.

Your complaints don't hold water when you look at the reality of the game.

[Blynd]

If like to see the AMS ammo repair all in the same option so you can only pick one that would make it more interesting and also the defenders would have to try and work out which one is the ams so its not just an easy there is a sundy go kill it cause its an ams. We all pull ams with ammo or repair it shoud be exclusive.

[Carbon Copied]

@Blaxican

I'm sure you're right you won't be able to combine AMS and ANT I didn't say otherwise - maybe when I put ANT/AMS you misread it and not as an alternative. No hard to grasp concepts beyond that of reading.

I was trying to put the point across of increasing the risk/reward for the choices made on the sunderer e.g (equipped with AMS or ANT) I can only seat 5; however if I run my support or battle sunderer (equipped with GSD or similar) I have maximum capacity etc. as well as maybe a dynamic resource cost increasing the "value" that the various utilities equipped hold.
If one random pulls the AMS and drives off - you're right it makes near no difference currently; however down the road (and this is speculating/borderline utopian player base I admit) once continental lattice comes in people are not just spamming S-AMS's where the risk and reward side encourages (but doesn't force) people to look and think about things that are rolling off the vehicle pad to get people to the next place because there will be a greater pop per continent (hopefully).

TL: dr It boils down to the risk/reward aspect not one specific limit of "must have x seats locked" and so forth. There's "does the job" and there's "does the job better" - currently it's "does the job equally well with little thought required outside the box".

[HereticusXZ]

Ammo and Repair are Defense slot options. AMS is Utility slot. If the ANT goes to Utility that means you can't have AMS but you can still have either Ammo or Repair.

Sunderer is the ONLY support vehicle in the game, everything else is strictly speaking offensive or defensive. 13 vehicles in the game and only 1 support?

Galaxy and Flash exist only to taxi players and minor offensive options between Wraith module and battle gal.

Liberator, ESF, MBT, and Harasser all exist almost exclusively as offensive options.

Lightning between a HEAT, AP, or HE cannon is used offensively, or Skyguard defensively.

Situations vary from player to player pending the environment there in and the individual playstyle but the fact remains that the Sunderer is the only vehicle in the game that carries a mobile spawn, repairs allies, supply's allies, and can gate shield diffuser or blockade as a battle-sundy.

With the Sunderer being the end all beat all do everything vehicle, shouldn't there be more support vehicles added to balance this grossly giant number of offensive vehicles? Such as making the ANT it's own unique vehicle, there's plenty of appeal with the siege mechanic it has!

[Vashyo]

I too, would prefer some simple vehicle like in PS1. If only for having more vehicle variety in the game and besides sundys the only support vehicle in the whole game.

I certainly hope we get some more vehicles in the future, its been over a year and the only addition has been the harasser. :/

[Ogre]

I need to comment on the Sunderer do all situation. I played planetside 1, and I really like the variety of vehicles, if only for new and exciting things to kill. My only complaint about an ANT sunderer, is that it will take exactly the same amount of effort to kill as any other. Perhaps this is not an overly bad thing, I will have to see on PST.

However since we are bringing back ant functionality, I have a suggestion. Individual Nanite resource pool for vehicles, perhaps even infantry. "But Ogre, are you insane, or what does this even mean?!" I am super glad you asked. At a minimum, vehicles that repair/ resupply should have a bar of "nanites" and as they distribute out their ammo, repairs, AMS respawns, etc, it is depleted. An ANT could refuel this, or you could wander back to a warpgate or whatever point is implemented. Medics and Engineers could run out of nanites to repair and heal and have to backtrack for supplies. The infantry side should be a slower drain, and able to refuel at hacked terminals.

A sub idea is to cut the number of ammo towers, or remove them all together. This par is ignorable but the implications are worth a discussion.

What does this force? the meta. resources. Supply lines. Sure you can zerg, but you cant zerg forever without some logistics, the further you get the more work it takes. Simply parking your ammo sunderer, or repair vehicle, or hiding an AMS, wont last forever. Perhaps for 3-10 minutes at full draw, but you are gonna need ANT support. The time is adjustable to taste, just my own ideas there.

From there we bring in galaxies as a true counterpart in utility. Instead of a whole new airframe, we get a utility module that is something like "mag (magnetic) crane" It would simply allow a galaxy to hover low over a vehicle and pick it up. different tiers for different vehicles. Carried underneath it externally.

Another module could be a cargo bay, land, vehicles drive up and in. I know I'm getting too far ahead of myself, but really. Just a patch dedicated to adding logistics to the game would be greater then any new vehicle or weapon.

[Calista]

This game takes economy of scale to a whole new level doesn't it?

[Ogre]

While I'll take what I can get, I have a suggestion to our benevolent overlords. If an ant were to be created, perhaps a community sourced model would be cool. Something along the lines of "if you guys want it so bad, make it yourself." Multiple rounds of creation, where the best models out of a bunch are picked and then put up for refinement. Mightbecool.