Why this game needs old bitter vets - Page 4

Irish · 2012-07-18, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Emperor

Correct me if I'm reading a bit into this, but the OP's post seems to skirt just shy of saying that new players are going to be rabble that the old guard needs to keep in line. While I definitely don't disagree that this game is going to get a large number of players who want instant gratification, don't know about tactics, and will need other players to put them in line, I don't like the assertions that these are "accepted norms" and that it's going to be solely on "bitter vets" to drill this out of people.

The players you described are simply bad players. Every team-based game has its share of people who contribute in no meaningful way, grab their guns and rush off without heed so they can get their first blood and kill streaks and what have you. This might not be because someone is new to a franchise, this might just be the way someone plays. Sometimes you can change that by showing them the value of teamwork; sometimes you can't.

This does not mean, however, that all new players are going to be like this. Again, correct me if I'm wrong on the message the OP was making, I might be looking at it a bit defensively since this will be my first foray into Planetside, but I think the onus isn't on just Planetside vets, it's on good players, period. There are players who will be coming into the game who know the value of teamwork, who know a thing or two about ops and tactics--perhaps not on as grand a scale, but certainly the foundation is there, the mentality is there.

Just please be aware that not all new players coming into Planetside are going to be trolls, racists, or bads with Rambo mentalities. Nor should it fall squarely on old Planetside players to try and work with those players; it should fall on the community as a whole. We really shouldn't be segregating ourselves into "vets" and "newbs," but rather team-oriented players and those who aren't.

noted. i appreciate your point of view.

james · 2012-07-18, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by SleepyZombie

I love new players! Just not ones who try to change a game into the image of a previous game they feel planetside 2 should be more like

but becuase you played ps1 it should be like ps1.

Buggsy · 2012-07-18, 10:57 PM

COD players will play anything with pretty graphics. If you want the older crowd make a more cerebral FPS game.

How to combine the 2 play styles: pretty graphics + more cerebral FPS game.

Originally Posted by Reizod

I agree 100% with this.

When it comes to the overall tactics that comes with a massive fps game like PS which entails some patience, that we vets developed over the years. We still need the newbs to also chip in and help "police" others as well.

I think we (vets) will be outnumbered anyway with the direction PS2 devs are going. Which is not a bad thing. Though I really think it's going the be a smack in the face to all the new comers that still think PS2 is going to give the instant gratification they are used to. I don't blame them since PS2 devs have been hyping the game in this way (E3 "action packed" demos etc) for months.

I don't understand some of you guys, PS1 had plenty of instant gratification, I used the instant action button all the time. But at least it had more cerebral type of game play too (that is before players started getting the CUD abilities command rank).

Originally Posted by GhettoPrince

Oh yeah, because people that played a video game 10 years ago are the only ones that understand teamwork and "tactics".

Of course planetside teamwork was hoping that someone remembered to bring an AMS or defend the generator and the only tactics were finding the AMS's and dropping the generators...

(before CUD abilities) there were 100X more tactics available in PS1 than you would find in BF2, and it's not cause the maps were bigger.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-07-18, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by SleepyZombie

Personally I would of found a mountain in the middle of nowhere and left him to fend for him self. Spend 10-15mins walking back.... or kill your self. Seems like justice to me

can you?

Serious question. I used to pack grenades so I could kill myself but I don't want to spend resources suiciding.

I've also got a feeling that the insta gib kids *will* be cannon fodder and *will* need to be kept in line by bittervets. There will be no tactics for a few weeks/months till the useless ones lose interest and go back to cod and the good ones join tactical outfits and become bittervets themselves.

Landtank · 2012-07-18, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

can you?

Serious question. I used to pack grenades so I could kill myself but I don't want to spend resources suiciding.

I've also got a feeling that the insta gib kids *will* be cannon fodder and *will* need to be kept in line by bittervets. There will be no tactics for a few weeks/months till the useless ones lose interest and go back to cod and the good ones join tactical outfits and become bittervets themselves.

That is exactly what will kill this game. Think about what you said.

SleepyZombie · 2012-07-18, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

can you?

Serious question. I used to pack grenades so I could kill myself but I don't want to spend resources suiciding.

I've also got a feeling that the insta gib kids *will* be cannon fodder and *will* need to be kept in line by bittervets. There will be no tactics for a few weeks/months till the useless ones lose interest and go back to cod and the good ones join tactical outfits and become bittervets themselves.

Sorta, you could teleport back to sanctuary or instant action out or pretty much suicide and re spawn some place. However you still spend more time doing that than its going to take me to take my aircraft into battle.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-07-18, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Landtank

That is exactly what will kill this game. Think about what you said.

woah... massive deja vous just then.

Yeah, i know that will kill the game. Just like i know I'll die and the sun will explode and the universe is generally black in colour.

so what? I don't get it. You think this game won't ever die ever or are you blaming me for killing it in the alpha?

Airanuva · 2012-07-18, 11:53 PM

Uhhh... Technically, I'm a new guy. I am a complete newbie to this game, but I am definitely interested in it.
If I was some flippant and arrogant child who thought he'd be praised as "The master of Planetside 2" because I was good at sniping people in CoD... I'd first slap myself and then let this grizzled veteran slap me, just for how stupid I would be, but I am not this annoying child.
I'm no master of FPS, I hardly play. Hell, the only FPS I play with any amount of regularity is TF2, and there I play the W+M1 pyro. But, despite not being good with twitch skills or even aiming, I am at least willing to learn.
But, I am not willing to follow someone who treats me like dirt. I understand that I am terrible, I don't need someone who's played since PS1 beta to tell me that.

I can best sum up my feelings on this topic as such:

You're in a WoW group, doing the lowest DPS. Someone tells you to "L2P n00b!" in response to your low dps. That guy could be the head of the biggest and most successful guild in the game, but you aren't going to listen to him.
Now, same group, but instead of the guy just saying "L2P" he gives you advice and attempts to help you. You can be a little miffed that someone is telling you how to play, but you are far more willing to listen to him.

TL;DR: I'm new to the game, and won't follow someone who is rude like a bitter veteran. I'll follow someone who is more willing to help.

UnknownDT · 2012-07-18, 11:55 PM

We are all so old...

Brusi · 2012-07-19, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

woah... massive deja vous just then.

Yeah, i know that will kill the game. Just like i know I'll die and the sun will explode and the universe is generally black in colour.

so what? I don't get it. You think this game won't ever die ever or are you blaming me for killing it in the alpha?

Aahaha!

There is currently a /suicide command. I would prefer if it wasn't left in the game after beta, however as we all know... sometimes it's just better to kill yourself than walk back to the battle for 5-10 mins.

As long as /sucide is not an integral part of gameplay and people aren't /suciding because they ran outta ammo, then no problems. I doubt it would be anyway, considering your weapons and items will cost resources to spawn.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-07-19, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Airanuva

Uhhh... Technically, I'm a new guy. I am a complete newbie to this game, but I am definitely interested in it.
If I was some flippant and arrogant child who thought he'd be praised as "The master of Planetside 2" because I was good at sniping people in CoD... I'd first slap myself and then let this grizzled veteran slap me, just for how stupid I would be, but I am not this annoying child.
I'm no master of FPS, I hardly play. Hell, the only FPS I play with any amount of regularity is TF2, and there I play the W+M1 pyro. But, despite not being good with twitch skills or even aiming, I am at least willing to learn.
But, I am not willing to follow someone who treats me like dirt. I understand that I am terrible, I don't need someone who's played since PS1 beta to tell me that.

I can best sum up my feelings on this topic as such:

You're in a WoW group, doing the lowest DPS. Someone tells you to "L2P n00b!" in response to your low dps. That guy could be the head of the biggest and most successful guild in the game, but you aren't going to listen to him.
Now, same group, but instead of the guy just saying "L2P" he gives you advice and attempts to help you. You can be a little miffed that someone is telling you how to play, but you are far more willing to listen to him.

TL;DR: I'm new to the game, and won't follow someone who is rude like a bitter veteran. I'll follow someone who is more willing to help.

Most vets I've encountered have actually been a bit too helpful and caring. I'm smarter than the average muppet, so I don't need to be told to stand behind the maxes 18 times in 5 minutes. But that happened. true story.

As for the bittervets, well... just hope they're a degree of rank away from you and so you won't have to interact with them.

GODJOEY · 2012-07-19, 12:07 AM

Definitely will be interesting.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-07-19, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Brusi

Aahaha!

There is currently a /suicide command. I would prefer if it wasn't left in the game after beta, however as we all know... sometimes it's just better to kill yourself than walk back to the battle for 5-10 mins.

As long as /sucide is not an integral part of gameplay and people aren't /suciding because they ran outta ammo, then no problems. I doubt it would be anyway, considering your weapons and items will cost resources to spawn.

Right, I understand now. He thought I was going to do mad 'sploitz and /suicide whenever I have 5 health left so as to deprive others of kills.

My intent was far more honourable than that. If I somehow find myself in the middle of nowhere, I'd like to have large cliffs / lava / deep water / wandering pack animals / de-spawn tubes / or even an enemy with a weapon nearby so that I can die and get back to the front lines faster. Or I could kill myself with my quick-knife.

I won't be trying to deprive the enemy of kills through dishonourable methods. That's no fun - a zero sum game maybe?

Landtank · 2012-07-19, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

woah... massive deja vous just then.

Yeah, i know that will kill the game. Just like i know I'll die and the sun will explode and the universe is generally black in colour.

so what? I don't get it. You think this game won't ever die ever or are you blaming me for killing it in the alpha?

I'm saying that it will kill the game prematurely. Look at what happened to Planetside 1, big subscription base at first, and then after the first six months it dropped drastically.

SOE has plans to make this game last well into the future, as is evidenced by the fact that they are including graphical options that can't be run by today's computers. If they want that to last, then they need to attract a very large player base, and keep that player base.

I don't like the idea of having to join an outfit just to experience the tactical part of the game, in my best fights in PS1 I was with random people who I had never met before working together to crush the embarrassingly ugly VS.

This game will have to cater to a lot of different playstyles in order to be successful.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-07-19, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Landtank

I'm saying that it will kill the game prematurely. Look at what happened to Planetside 1, big subscription base at first, and then after the first six months it dropped drastically.
This will happen with PS2 also. A lot of curious people will realise that "it's not for me" and quit. Hopefully they tell their friends about it first.

SOE has plans to make this game last well into the future, as is evidenced by the fact that they are including graphical options that can't be run by today's computers. If they want that to last, then they need to attract a very large player base, and keep that player base.
Yes. This is true. How do you attract a large player base without attracting people who will quit after 3 months? Maybe if you attract a OMFGWTF THAT IS HUUUUGE player base you will end up (in 6 months) with the "right sized" player base?

I don't like the idea of having to join an outfit just to experience the tactical part of the game,
Neither do I. I like having choices that lead me to be awesome faster. Min/Maxing I think it's called. Outfits have already got tactical training and expertise. You can see what they specialise in, join up, learn some neat stuff from them which will make you a better overall player and then you can quit them at any time without penalty. Or you could not join either but it'll take longer to learn that neat stuff. I want it now.

in my best fights in PS1 I was with random people who I had never met before working together to crush the embarrassingly ugly VS.Fantastic! But you said working together. Did you do it tactically? With support from medics and engineers and a unified plan? Or did you jump around 360 quickscoping as a bunch of 10 individuals with no teamwork or coherent plan?

This game will have to cater to a lot of different playstyles in order to be successful. Yes indeedy.

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