My main concern about the class system

[Bags]

And I think that's a poor reason. People will min/max regardless.

[Aractain]

Its not so much pressure to fill the role, just that is like a constant reminder that you arn't playing the game 'correctly' because your not getting the best KPM or KDR or whatever (and dieing a lot more than others - but that might just be because I suck -_-).

I enjoyed AV/MA/Engy/Adv Medic/Tanks/Buggys/AA mostly which meant I was bait to the reavers and mossie when outdoors (even when AA lol!) and bait to the HA indoors without offering much to the team because im running a 'subpar' build. (That was a WoW joke, I really ment that my fun is tempered by the not fun of not having a real role in the game).

I don't think healing is going to be so important this time from the sound of it so losing basic med is fine. Will we have armour as infantry? Will engineer types be the only way to repair MAXs?

I don't see the support stuff as meaning as much or meaning MORE since it isn't as common. So for me it comes down to guns. Having the ability with one loadout (PS1 example) to shoot infantry, MAXs, ground vehicles and air vehicles all in one loadout and all at optimum rate is bad design.

Would you care so much if you still had the ability to heal and repair somehow with weapon roles limited?


(Wish I was better at explaining myself)

[Headrattle]

Originally Posted by Aractain

Its not so much pressure to fill the role, just that is like a constant reminder that you arn't playing the game 'correctly' because your not getting the best KPM or KDR or whatever (and dieing a lot more than others - but that might just be because I suck -_-).

Never really pressured that way either. Can there be balance? Yes. HA can be more expensive in my opinion. Improvements? Of course. But it just looks to me like the Class system is going to make everything you guys complain about, worse.

I don't see the support stuff as meaning as much or meaning MORE since it isn't as common. So for me it comes down to guns. Having the ability with one loadout (PS1 example) to shoot infantry, MAXs, ground vehicles and air vehicles all in one loadout and all at optimum rate is bad design.

Define optimum. Because you aren't doing it at an "optimum rate." You need a lot of inventory space for all that. And at the time, Rexo made it even more expensive to run. You could do that, but at the failing of support roles. Meaning you had to depend on others, or die frequently. That isn't "optimum" in my opinion.

[Aractain]

The core of my hope for PS is no one class can take on infantry, vehicles, aircraft and MAXs all at the same time. Maybe choose two or one really well.

Im imagning HA + rocklet or MA + AV but not HA + AV. Maybe they break up AV into AV and AA also who knows. Maybe there wont be many close in corridors and things so HA isn't as uesful (probably will be though).

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Aractain

The core of my hope for PS is no one class can take on infantry, vehicles, aircraft and MAXs all at the same time. Maybe choose two or one really well.

If your infantry can't take on MAXs and infantry at the same time i'll be sitting in a MAX waiting to chew everything up...... seriously people complained about MAXs when every grunt had some form of AV, you take that away and it'll be a MAX fest

I'm hoping the classes are along the lines of the; medic being an ADV med with MA, the eng being a CE with glue gun and MA, the grunt being able to heal/rep and HA MA AV sniper, the cloaker having pistols and hacking, and a pilot having MA and glue gun.

I honestly think taking the basic grunts ability to grunt away from him will destroy the game

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Redshift

If your infantry can't take on MAXs and infantry at the same time

At the same time in that post meant using the same cert build and without having to visit a terminal. Back in beta, when the cert tree were very restrictive and nobody was br18, players had to specialize. You'd get medics with some MA and Agile (you had to buy it) or pilots or tankers or HA users or hackers or... Now you get ha/av/eng/a.med/a.hack do-all character. The game was reduced form a multitude of specializations to two. Indoor and Outdoor. Everything else is irrelevant or you're intentionally gimping yourself.

PS2, form every indication, will somewhere between BF2142 and EVE. Everyone will be able to perform every basic role at a basic level. Say in 2142 if you spent a lot of time in Engineer you could do all the fancy Engi tricks but if your certs were irrelevant you could still change to Assault or Support, untrained, and roll in with your buddies. From the dev panel, PS2 will be similar in a skilling standpoint. And, hopefuly, the trees will be time-intensive enough to make specializing in medic or hacker or transport actually mean something because, right now in PS1, those specializations don't exist anymore.

As anyone who has -actually- played EVE can confirm, new players can get up to 90% operating capacity in a wide variety of boats in short order. The specialist boats take much more time and that time limits your ability to do other things. PS2 seems to be taking a similar tack. Everyone will be functional indoors or out but if you want to do anything well or use anything fancy (see: example of MAX as an offshoot of HA) then you'll have to invest time and your supersoldier potential will decrease accordingly. Unless they totally screw up the xp curve, nobody will ever be able to do everything and specialists will actually be important this time around.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by exLupo

. You'd get medics with some MA and Agile (you had to buy it) or pilots or tankers or HA users or hackers or... Now you get ha/av/eng/a.med/a.hack do-all character. The game was reduced form a multitude of specializations to two. Indoor and Outdoor.

basic med and eng is not a specialisation, ADV med CE and adv hacker are what i would term specialisations and you couldn't pick up those while still having all the main grunting certs (excluding when they fucked up the br cap)

and tbh that made for good game play, i personally had myself pure grunt at br 20, i used to have to drive an atv around since i couldn't afford a mossie :P and when we did organised outfit stuff i dropped my AV for adv med, and others drops certs for what they needed for the night.

If only the med can heal people then the grunt will effectivly be dead, because without a shadow of a doubt a med with a MA will be a better killer than a grunt with HA who can't heal himself

MA/ENG HA AV is not a super soldier it's a basic grunt

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Redshift

MA/ENG HA AV is not a super soldier it's a basic grunt

Any single unit that can realistically solo engage any other unit and not rely on anyone else to fix themselves up afterwards is a super soldier. Like I said. It's the de facto indoor build. The only one worth having if you aren't in a vehicle.

That's a problem.

[Aractain]

Umm the point is that people will choose between them. There will be people with anti-MAX alongside people without - thats the whole point. If EVERY infantry is effective vs every other infantry/MAX its just a game of Quake.

[Aractain]

Don't forget implants. Maybe they will make regenration implant really awesome if there is no self healing?

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Aractain

Don't forget implants. Maybe they will make regenration implant really awesome if there is no self healing?

Maybe, but you spend so much time jammered anyway

[Aractain]

The hard limit is time - and unlike PS1 its self balanceing, the best a class can ever be is what the devs design it to be. It can't ever cross class boundrys and gain SUPER POWERS!