Am I getting this right....?

[texico]

Originally Posted by Raymac

If something like this ruins the game for someone, well I just feel sorry for them. Planetside 2 is bringing soooo much to the table. Plus, when I looked at the screen shot of the class selection screen, it actually struck me to how similar it actually was to the armor selections in PS1.

And let's kill this myth right here. This is not about "dumbing things down". This is about balance. When you look at the battlefield as a whole, I predict that we will see far more variety in troops than we did in PS1.

Deal with it, or just go ahead and play that other new MMOFPS with a freeform inventory system that uses combined arms of infantry, armor, and air. Oh that's right, there isn't one.

What is with the people who are against classes being put down? As a matter of fact, something like this can ruin the game for me and, as is evidence by the number of people who're complaining, many others. There's nothing sorry about them. A "subtle" or less high-profile change like this can have big implications for the way the game is played both on an individual basis and on the scale of the battle as a whole, enough to get people frustrated or put them off, or feel like their play is somehow diminished compared to ps1, and if you and others can't appreciate that then I feel sorry for you guys.

It's not just a matter of people like me looking at things from an overly-sophisticated view point either. I told one of my friends recently about how PlanetSide is getting a sequel. He likes to just play, and not think about things on a much deeper level. But the first thing he said to me was "they're taking out free-form inventory? That sucks!"

It's because he knows what was fun for him in PS1 - running around adv medding people as a cloaker. feeling like a soldier in a war utilizing his empire's technology as he wants. There's a lot of satisfaction in that too, not just in killing people. And that's another of the key points, it's going to feel like the game is just setting you up to do what it wants you to do, rather than dropping you in to a war simulator to respond to the environment (the balance mechanics, the enemy and your own skills) much more naturally.




I can take Football as an example. There are no "positions" in the rules of Football, just a set of conditions. But players naturally organize themselves into positions, Defenders, Midfielders, and Strikers (just like ps1 players organize themselves naturally into classes). However, these players (and the managers) change their positions and therefore their roles in the "war" of the football match to respond best to their skills, the conditions of the game, and the other team. And so you get all kinds of interesting types of players, such as Inside Forwards, Playmakers and 4-2-3-1 formations. If the rules, right from the start, said you can only line up with 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 strikers in a 4-4-2, all those other interesting players would have been lost. In short, the game evolves organically out of its environment.

The same is true of PS1. Players organized themselves into classes naturally based on their skill, the balance conditions of the game, and the enemy. No classes were official and you'd get interesting niche's that spawned organically from the game's environment. Some people actually like playing their own roles and niches, and from the viewpoint of the game it looks great and natural. If you implement forced cookie-cutter classes, you kill all that, and the game feels much more mechanized, much less personal and
less tactically organic from a top view.


So yes, it is important me. PlanetSide 2 definitely does have loads to offer and some of the things the game is promising looks very very good. Customisation is neat. But We're talking about one of PS1's fundamental mechanics being changed, and that's why so many people have also voiced concern because they're aware of that - this isn't a light or unimportant subject.

[Raymac]

@texico - I see what you are saying. I truly do. But let's face some cold hard realities here. PS1 pretty much had a class system with its armor requirements. I mean what are Max units if not a class? If you really break it down, there is not a huge departure from what PS1 did and what PS2 is doing.

As for the players that liked to find their niche, A) let's face it, they are a very small minority, hence the niche. B) With the focus on the deep customization we've seen, I have a feeling those same players will be able to scratch that "I'm a unique snowflake" itch.

EDIT: Torres is a bitch, and REAL football (what you call American football) does have classes and is infinitly cooler

[Hermes]

Some things we liked are removed, some other things are improved. Criticize, sure, but don't spoil the mood! Wait to see how they interact in beta...

...dude.

/forumrapbattle

[Neksar]

If it's that critical, then the system could end up becoming something like a 'weight' system, where players can carry x amount of stuff, with each item having its own weight, so long as they don't go over capacity. It doesn't bring back using your MAX suit as a storage unit, but at least you'd get to choose among ammo/grenades/medpacks again.

[FriendlyFire]

Originally Posted by texico

soccer

The thing is, no one plays, part-time Goalie, striker, etc, etc, etc, etc, at the same time. They meet their conditions, on the field, for their position, and play it.


PS2 will be the same.

[Rbstr]

I'm glad for classes and the nuance of balance it can bring. Can't cram in a fuck load a medkits or do nothing-but-'nades. It lets you balance not only on power but on availability.
Meaningful weapon customisation and real, worthwhile specialisation are weal worth not having to sit and play Tetris with ammo boxes.

I do hope they have retained some ability to selectively pick what you want in terms of the accoutrements. Like "Tick two of the following: Extra Nade, Extra Ammo, Extra medkit, Extra Rockets"

[Gammit10]

No longer will you get to be the ultimate Agile, HA, medic, engineer, mossie soldier. I welcome this change. More reliance on your buddies is a good thing.

[texico]

This this this

[Atheosim]

I just hope every non-max class has access to a sniper rifle.

[Mightymouser]

Can Bags, or someone go pulls some quotes? I'd do it but I don't have the time atm...

My understanding of the system (which may be wrong, hence the request for quotes) is that you'll choose a class, and then that class will incur some restrictions on what you can and cannot use. (al-la the Heavy Assault restrictions). However even within that class you can still choose your load outs, although you no longer have to deal with actually mapping them out in your inventory. (meaning you may still be able to choose 1 extra med pack versus an extra box of ammo, but instead of moving them around in your inventory it's a problem of weight, or total space, or some other quantitative limit)

If I am understanding the system correctly, that's not really 'cookie cutter' classes IMO. Cookie cutter classes means all the eng's have shot guns and 4 ACEs and a repair guns, ect. That's not what they are talking about; they are talking about Eng's can no longer run around with a Lasher on their back; instead they'll have to choose one of the lighter guns (indeed, they've made a new gun that is the 'heavier' MA option for classes which aren't allowed Heavy Assault) Whether this is a good change or not, I think we'll have to wait for beta. But I don't think this is quite similar to cookie cutter classes seen in games like the BF series, where they have already mapped out the inventories of every class in the game.

[sylphaen]

Why you guys have to start a thousand threads about the same topics ?

Anyways, to be short:
- to all who blame PS1 free-form inventory for one-man armies --> would you mind giving us your opinion about BR40 before assaulting the free-form inventory system ?
- concerning why PS2 has no inventory, I think it's simply to make things easier to scale/balance. Balance was complicated in PS1 because it was inter-dependant on armor restrictions (i.e. weapon size/inventory size), cert tree, max available cert points and empire-specific weapons. In PS2, they just need to adjust weapon stats.


Is it possible to merge threads ?

[Shotokanguy]

Originally Posted by Warborn

I bet if you went down the list of armor types you would find that people used incredibly similar load-outs for a given function. How many rexo guys were armor tool, med tool, HA, AV, box of AV ammo, few boxes of HA ammo, medkit or two, and maybe a jammer or something? Considering the classes can be customized in terms of weapons and certifications, I have a strong suspicion that this really isn't a loss of customization at all. In fact, there's probably even more customization on account of the old "do everything" rexo soldier having gone the way of the dodo.

Not a bad point. I never thought about that. If you were a grunt, you were probably always a Rexo using HA/MA and AV.

Heck, even lots of players running around in Agile didn't do anything different from the Rexo zerg.

[Saintlycow]

IMO, really depends on how many places we can customize.

The more places you can change things (ie 2 vs 4 utility slots) = better customization in my eyes. Of course, you need multiple gadgets to fill those slots

[Sik]

Don't really care, everyone basically used the same load out depending on the role they played.

The only thing that they could ever "copy" from other games that'd truly piss me off is "dead mans trigger"...How I hate you! :@

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by sylphaen

Anyways, to be short:
- to all who blame PS1 free-form inventory for one-man armies --> would you mind giving us your opinion about BR40 before assaulting the free-form inventory system ?

BR20, one could access MA, HA, AV, Med, Engi, Rexo and that would cost only 18 cert points. There was most definitely room for a reaver, or a mossie, or a tank, or adv engi, or hacking, or what-have-you. The max total was 23 at the time (5 freebies at BR1.)

The first 6 certs were the key issue in the one man army however.

Planetside 2 removes the 18 cert rexo one-man-armies and grants everyone the every basic version of each vehicle in game without any or many prerequisites.. It's still not a one-man-army, because a tank can't do everything at once like PS1's foot zergers could. People equate "access to everything" as one man army, but no one pays attention to whether or not X the tank driver and a few minutes later Y the footzerger is in fact the exact same person.

What made someone a one man army was they had access to everything they needed at the same time. The adaptability was 100% for the ye ol' Rexo of PS1. Completely solo capable. The biggest issue with too much freedom is that people will inevitably find the path of least resistance or in this case, greatest efficiency, defeating the entire purpose of the system. Few strayed from this path.

Classes prevents the one man army and encourage team play. Anyone claiming total certs should be lowered or that costs should be higher just isn't getting it, or suggesting that if one equips X item, they can't equip Y item pretty much justified having a class system anyway.