Remove KDR - Page 4

Silent Thunder · 2013-03-20, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by typhaon

LOL!

Call me crazy - but it doesn't sound like they are de-emphasizing it...

By adding a consumable item to refresh your KDR - that I assume will cost $$$ - it sounds like they are actually emphasizing the stat and trying to capitalize financially on how much players care about this stat.

* For the record... I don't think there is anything wrong with the stat.

In all honesty, if you're the type of person who gets so worked up over K/D that you're willing to spend actual money on resetting it... well you deserve to have that money taken away from you.

Assist · 2013-03-20, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by DrankTHEKoolaid

To me taking a base is with my outfit/team/friends is a success. I don't need a stat telling me that I won something either, that's kind of my entire point. Taking a hard fought base in PS2 is much more gratifying to me than winning a 10 minute round of (insert other FPS here).

I can't really talk about Quake since I never played it but are you really gonna try and tell me that nobody camps in FPS because they want to improve their KD? Seriously?

So you don't need rewards for taking anything then? Just taking the base is enough? What about when you lose the base 30 minutes later when your outfit moves on? Did it matter then? Did you feel like you needed to go defend it? No - because that base itself was completely meaningless. You enjoyed the fact that you were involved in a great fight. You didn't accomplish anything that will matter the next day, you simply won a fight. Similarly, you would of enjoyed the same fight on open ground in the middle of no where, as long as it was an even hard fought encounter. The idea that your team beat the other team is enough for you, if it was hard fought. I agree with you on this point too, and I think most PS2 players feel this way as well, the problem is where that fight is or what is gained by the result of that fight doesn't matter.
What if it wasn't hard fought? Do you still enjoy taking that base? Ghost capping is boring as shit and completely unrewarding. Just like defending against it is completely unrewarding. It's simply not fun to go somewhere that a fight doesn't exist. Even though there's 50 objectives out there, all easily attainable, no one wants to go do them because it's not rewarding. It's far more rewarding to kill the same people over and over for hours on end, because the alternatives suck.

No one goes to sit at the Crown or to Bio Labs or anywhere to gain a high KDR. They go to gain XP. XP is what drives this game, gaining certs is the only objective in the game that lasts day to day. I could make a character today and sit somewhere for 6 hours and maintain a 60:1 KDR, but what's the point if I only kill 60 people in 6 hours? I'll have a stat to show for it, and that's it. Whereas if I go kill 600 people in 6 hours, but have 600 deaths, I'll have gained a shitton of XP and certs to go with it. I can use that to actually purchase a new weapon or new attachment. But taking that empty base in the corner? Defending a base solo for hours to get a high KDR? That stuff doesn't matter the next day, it didn't improve me as a player or my character at all.

Rolfski · 2013-03-20, 01:34 PM

I just came across this idea and I kinda liked it. It draws inspiration from Tribes where they kept the kill stats but removed the death stats in favor of something more objective based: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...racked.106667/

DrankTHEKoolaid · 2013-03-20, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

So you don't need rewards for taking anything then? Just taking the base is enough? What about when you lose the base 30 minutes later when your outfit moves on? Did it matter then? Did you feel like you needed to go defend it? No - because that base itself was completely meaningless. You enjoyed the fact that you were involved in a great fight. You didn't accomplish anything that will matter the next day, you simply won a fight. Similarly, you would of enjoyed the same fight on open ground in the middle of no where, as long as it was an even hard fought encounter. The idea that your team beat the other team is enough for you, if it was hard fought. I agree with you on this point too, and I think most PS2 players feel this way as well, the problem is where that fight is or what is gained by the result of that fight doesn't matter.
What if it wasn't hard fought? Do you still enjoy taking that base? Ghost capping is boring as shit and completely unrewarding. Just like defending against it is completely unrewarding. It's simply not fun to go somewhere that a fight doesn't exist. Even though there's 50 objectives out there, all easily attainable, no one wants to go do them because it's not rewarding. It's far more rewarding to kill the same people over and over for hours on end, because the alternatives suck.

No one goes to sit at the Crown or to Bio Labs or anywhere to gain a high KDR. They go to gain XP. XP is what drives this game, gaining certs is the only objective in the game that lasts day to day. I could make a character today and sit somewhere for 6 hours and maintain a 60:1 KDR, but what's the point if I only kill 60 people in 6 hours? I'll have a stat to show for it, and that's it. Whereas if I go kill 600 people in 6 hours, but have 600 deaths, I'll have gained a shitton of XP and certs to go with it. I can use that to actually purchase a new weapon or new attachment. But taking that empty base in the corner? Defending a base solo for hours to get a high KDR? That stuff doesn't matter the next day, it didn't improve me as a player or my character at all.

Look I agree with you on the meta game for the most part. I don't need a huge reward for capturing something or a pat on the back but I won't disagree that changes need to be made to the overall winning/losing aspect of the game.

But for the KD thing though, you are helping me prove my point. People do camp for hours in stupid spots for KD. This is not new, I gave you the Battlefield example and it's not people who want exp, half the time it's battle rank 100s. You can make any argument you want but KD DOES change how SOME people play. If you won't admit that then I don't know wht else to say.

NotTheMomma · 2013-03-20, 01:53 PM

I skimmed through the thread, and I think you have all completely lost focus on the point. No matter how you feel about KDR, this is what is the issue: SOE wants to sell the ability for players to directly manipulate their statistics without playing the game. WHAT KIND OF REVISIONIST BS IS THAT?!

bpostal · 2013-03-20, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by NotTheMomma

I skimmed through the thread, and I think you have all completely lost focus on the point. No matter how you feel about KDR, this is what is the issue: SOE wants to sell the ability for players to directly manipulate their statistics without playing the game. WHAT KIND OF REVISIONIST BS IS THAT?!

It's the capitalist version of the Ministry of Truth?

Assist · 2013-03-20, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by DrankTHEKoolaid

Look I agree with you on the meta game for the most part. I don't need a huge reward for capturing something or a pat on the back but I won't disagree that changes need to be made to the overall winning/losing aspect of the game.

But for the KD thing though, you are helping me prove my point. People do camp for hours in stupid spots for KD. This is not new, I gave you the Battlefield example and it's not people who want exp, half the time it's battle rank 100s. You can make any argument you want but KD DOES change how SOME people play. If you won't admit that then I don't know wht else to say.

I'm sure it changes how someone out there plays. There's no high BR's on Waterson that I know of who just pad their K/D stat. Plenty of farm XP to get more certs though. Plenty who will go out of their way to maintain a high XP/Hr, all of which completely avoids accomplishing objectives. The root of the problem is the lack of incentive to complete objectives. It's simply too rewarding on a personal level to do other things and there are no real team goals in this game as the rewards for doing so are not worth it.
The only exception to it is people who play for pride - for winning that empty base or taking over that continent. But those people are in the same ballpark as the KDR guys, it's pride that drives them and anything else in the game is irrelevant.

I just don't understand the fuss over KDR. It's not a driving force in this game. XP/Hr definitely is, but KDR is just a stat and it doesn't impact the game at all.

Assist · 2013-03-20, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by NotTheMomma

I skimmed through the thread, and I think you have all completely lost focus on the point. No matter how you feel about KDR, this is what is the issue: SOE wants to sell the ability for players to directly manipulate their statistics without playing the game. WHAT KIND OF REVISIONIST BS IS THAT?!

Actually his point was to remove the KDR stat, which we're still focusing on.

SoE selling a meaningless object shouldn't matter to anyone. It's no different than someone buying camo. If someone wants to pay the money to change their appearance than more power to 'em.

PredatorFour · 2013-03-20, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

Plenty who will go out of their way to maintain a high XP/Hr, all of which completely avoids accomplishing objectives..

..I just don't understand the fuss over KDR. It's not a driving force in this game. XP/Hr definitely is, but KDR is just a stat and it doesn't impact the game at all.

Both stats are not great really. A high KDR is quite easy to get and so is XP/Hr... Both avoid objectives most of the time. If someone has a high one or the other it doesn't mean they're great planetside players at all. But i guess it's down to personal opinion.

Rothnang · 2013-03-20, 02:10 PM

I disagree. KDR should not only be a stat, it should also be useful.

The game shouldn't reward people for suicidal behavior, because that destroys the risk vs reward mechanic.

Something like doing a C4 run on an enemy tank should be a high risk / high reward strategy, but since the risk is made non-existent by free respawning it becomes a no risk / high reward strategy, and that is stupid.

KDR is the only thing that currently tells people that high risk strategies even exist.

I used to be firmly in the KDR leads to cowardly players camp, and I still think trying to stay alive for the sake of a stat is stupid, but I do applaud people who actually measure the risks they take, because they are the people that make deeper strategy possible.

That said, fuck spawn room shields, people who camp behind them are vermin.

AuntLou · 2013-03-20, 02:11 PM

If you remove it in game it'll still be easy for stat sites do just to the math. It'll exist until they get rid of kills and/or deaths.

Just leave it alone. Is it really that bad???? If you get rid of it it'll encourage the exact opposite behavior, everyone just Leroy Jenkinsing all over, suicide killing and such.

AThreatToYou · 2013-03-20, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Most people playing shooters will always do everything they can do avoid death.

If my KDR isn't being tracked, this is 100% untrue for me. My game behavior is drastically altered by the game having a KDR and I wish the game wouldn't track how many times you've died, period.

satori · 2013-03-20, 02:34 PM

KDR is my own personal metagame (something the game lacks)

Dragonskin · 2013-03-20, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

I'm sure it changes how someone out there plays. There's no high BR's on Waterson that I know of who just pad their K/D stat. Plenty of farm XP to get more certs though. Plenty who will go out of their way to maintain a high XP/Hr, all of which completely avoids accomplishing objectives. The root of the problem is the lack of incentive to complete objectives. It's simply too rewarding on a personal level to do other things and there are no real team goals in this game as the rewards for doing so are not worth it.
The only exception to it is people who play for pride - for winning that empty base or taking over that continent. But those people are in the same ballpark as the KDR guys, it's pride that drives them and anything else in the game is irrelevant.

I just don't understand the fuss over KDR. It's not a driving force in this game. XP/Hr definitely is, but KDR is just a stat and it doesn't impact the game at all.

I like how you try to talk for everyone when you have people in this very thread that do worry about their K/D and mostly only because it is a stat that is shown.

Also I have seen streams of people that if they die repeatedly they go somewhere else... not because they want a challenge... no, they want to get easy kills. Just because you claim that KDR doesn't affect you doesn't make it true for the other 99% of the people playing the game.

psijaka · 2013-03-20, 03:35 PM

I didn't like K/D being prominent in the in game profile page and leaderboards as it was a while back, but now that it is buried fairly inconspicuously on the stats page I've no real objection to it. Like it or not, many players will look at their K/D (even though it means very little in PS), so why not let them if that is what they want?

I'm no K/D whore, but I do like to kill and I don't like to die!