Dust 514 - Page 4

Warborn · 2012-03-30, 04:11 PM

Dust was unimpressive to me. Apparently it's fun to play, but it's still a console FPS. The only parts I found interesting were their plans for EVE-like skill depth, and the concept of fighting for cash and spending that cash on powerful items. Planetside 2's commitment to making a "five minute player and a five year player on equal footing" isn't something I care much for.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-03-30, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Dust was unimpressive to me. Apparently it's fun to play, but it's still a console FPS. The only parts I found interesting were their plans for EVE-like skill depth, and the concept of fighting for cash and spending that cash on powerful items. Planetside 2's commitment to making a "five minute player and a five year player on equal footing" isn't something I care much for.

The equal footing between players is one of the most key things in PS. Otherwise there's no real threat to the older players and there's no hope for the younglings. You'd have to break the world apart just to keep things fun the way mmorpgs do. That might work in lesser mmofps where they just break up into arena fights but this is Planetside. I'd always rather that skill dominate my games rather than grind.

(and to keep things slightly on topic)
Interested in seeing how Dust works out as an experiment. But the links between the game seem tangential and not whole hog. Boarding actions, boarding torpedoes, infiltration missions like UT's assault, there's just so much more they could do than battlefield clone with some links to another MMO. Another quick example, that orbital cannon fire should but MUCH larger, right now it's just purple colored BF2 artillery. But this is just the opening for them, so as I said, I'm really interested to see how this pans out.

Warborn · 2012-03-30, 07:52 PM

I'm perfectly fine with there being slight advantages granted by skill points. Nothing major. EVE-style stuff. +5% to this, +5% to that. I think progression is fairly meaningless if it affords no benefits. Cosmetic progression is not interesting to me.

You're also going off the rails there. Saying I'd prefer if things weren't totally level between a 5 minute and 5 year player doesn't mean I think the 5 minute player should be totally outclassed and helpless and etc. I just mean that if after 5 years of character development you have literally nothing to show for it in terms, that underwhelms me.

I get a feeling like this is going to lead to a very obvious and unnecessary response, so I'll just say my response to it right away. Yes, I know there are sidegrades and derp. Yes, I know you'd have 5 years of experience and probably be a better player. Yes, you'll probably be in an outfit and whatever.

All I'm saying is that Dust 514 will have character development which will let you become better at doing certain jobs than less-developed players. It will let you fight for isk to spend on gear that is better than your default gear. I don't mind the idea of these elements being in a competitive FPS game with MMO leanings.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-03-30, 09:15 PM

You pretty much just gave out what the PS devs are after with their leveling systems. I agree that mere cosmetic growth isn't enough to keep players around. The original PS allowed for a larger growth in what abilities you could use at any one time. PS2 has been said to have small growths possible up to ~20% which is what you seem to want.

What you seem to be against is pure sidegrade and cosmetic changes similar to how TF2 works. The advantages you describe for Dust is pretty much right on the money for what's going to be in PS2.

Warborn · 2012-03-30, 09:49 PM

Higby literally said a five minute player and a five year player will be on equal footing during the GDC stuff. Maybe what he meant was that there'd be a 20% difference, but it isn't what he said.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-03-30, 11:26 PM

It's times like this I love Bags.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=37350

"How close will a new player be to a vet? A veteran will be no more than 20% stronger than a new player."

I don't blame you for not knowing this, there's a lot of info to get through and sometimes it all runs together if you're not constantly looking for it. But sorting these things out is what the forum is for. Hope this helps.

Warborn · 2012-03-31, 03:32 PM

I'd read that before. When was it written? Half a year ago? More? The most recent information we have lead me to believe that all advancement would be lateral, rather than vertical. Things change in the course of development. Character advancement could certainly be one of them.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-03-31, 04:15 PM

The information you're referring to was from a presentation designed to inform people who've never seen the game before. The ~20% comes from direct Q&A with the fan base. We can further lay this to rest by seeing in that same presentation Higby pointed out that with levels the vanguard could be equipped with shields to augment its armor. This would be part of the 20% difference between new and leveled players.

Warborn · 2012-03-31, 05:11 PM

We'll see how it pans out, but at this point I'm more impressed by Dust's unabashed commitment to giving people rewards for fighting well in the form of better stuff to help them fight better, and a breadth of skills that make them more capable as they acquire them.

p0intman · 2012-04-01, 10:28 AM

Food for thought:

There are people in EVE who are stupidly, insanely rich. We can therefore outfit our own personal armadas and armies of DUST mercs without much of a second thought and write it off.

For example, my ingame wallet is currently at about three quarters of a trillion isk.

so um, if I want to outfit my mercs with the very best stuff.. I can without much of a problem and theres almost nothing you can do about it. Nevermind that I can hide that kind of power behind alts for transactions, so you'll never be able to properly retaliate in space, either.

duomaxwl · 2012-04-01, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Food for thought:

For example, my ingame wallet is currently at about three quarters of a trillion isk.

Than why won't you buy me a ship with pewpew lasers?

p0intman · 2012-04-01, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by duomaxwl

Than why won't you buy me a ship with pewpew lasers?

More food for thought: it wont hurt as much when you lose it and it is then less fun to find and buy/build and then fly your own ship as opposed to when you put effort into it.

i log into eve for two reasons lately: manufacturing jobs, invention jobs and because my starbases are whining like the fps community does.

Having a fat wallet makes EVE boring unless all you do is blow people up.

edit: the above reason is why i would outfit mercs and fleets: to grief dusters.

Edit: in the immortal words of darius johnson: I am not here to ruin the game, I am here to ruin your game.

Ait'al · 2012-04-01, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Food for thought:

There are people in EVE who are stupidly, insanely rich. We can therefore outfit our own personal armadas and armies of DUST mercs without much of a second thought and write it off.

For example, my ingame wallet is currently at about three quarters of a trillion isk.

so um, if I want to outfit my mercs with the very best stuff.. I can without much of a problem and theres almost nothing you can do about it. Nevermind that I can hide that kind of power behind alts for transactions, so you'll never be able to properly retaliate in space, either.

Why should that be considered a problem. 8) adds depth that way.

duomaxwl · 2012-04-01, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

More food for thought: it wont hurt as much when you lose it and it is then less fun to find and buy/build and then fly your own ship as opposed to when you put effort into it.

I was kiddingggg.

Warborn · 2012-04-02, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Food for thought:

If isk can just flow freely from EVE to Dust then that completely changes everything and is not what I'm advocating.