Leadership - Page 4

BuzzCutPsycho · 2012-04-15, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Vancha

Of course you couldn't, but won't you humour me, oh great patrician!?

I may one day share my wisdom with you. We'll see.

Grognard · 2012-04-15, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Vancha

No, but seriously, I'd be interested to hear the accounts of "first leadership attempts" from any outfit leaders here.

My first attempt to be Khan of the Jade Falcons, on the very first Netmech ladder league... what, 20 years ago, as Olaf Pryde.

Honestly... I got my ass handed to me by a pilot who was extremely good, but didnt want to run the clan, and I did. He was my saKhan ever since... and we even met IRL. I ran that clan for a long time, even ended up getting some real life gifts sent to me in the mail from my members, still have the shirt...

About 30 years ago, a retired Marine Lt Col. told me... the key to leadership, is to "get people to do things because they want to, not because they have to", and to "praise in public, punish in private", but most of all "set the example"...

I promoted on various types of merit, and tried to make it worth while to do a good job. I tried to provide an overall vision for the Clan, and let the commanders run their shows. When they did good, I let them know it in the open. When they fucked up, I let them know in private, no barking here... I had a female member who disliked me, but she kicked a lot of ass, so she rose to Galaxy Commander, nevertheless. We never saw eye to eye, but she deserved her due...

Took a lot of work, and I learned html on the fly to put peoples names in lights, and provide a flavor of clan military encasing an atmosphere of comradery...

All in all, it was a good experience...

BuzzCutPsycho · 2012-04-15, 04:49 PM

It was a different environment back in those days. Back then gamers were genuinely nerds. Now we share the internet with nerds, nerds in denial and Mountain Dew swilling teenagers.

Red Beard · 2012-04-15, 04:52 PM

About 30 years ago, a retired Marine Lt Col. told me... the key to leadership, is to "get people to do things because they want to, not because they have to", and to "praise in public, punish in private", but most of all "set the example"...

Took a lot of work, and I learned html on the fly to put peoples names in lights, and provide a flavor of clan military encasing an atmosphere of comradery...

That's awesome leadership. What faction are you going to be with?

BuzzCutPsycho · 2012-04-15, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Red Beard

That's awesome leadership. What faction are you going to be with?

Considering that there is a VS logo in the top right of his post I'd assume VS.

Cosmical · 2012-04-15, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Grognard

put peoples names in lights, and provide a flavor of clan military encasing an atmosphere of comradery...

See thats what i mean, the enforcement there was the employment of possitive feedback in a game which had very little systems in place to do so automatically.

I mean it is a common thing nowadays to have an "outfit member of the week", but it seems like there should be other ideas for people to suggest.

... aslong as we dont get sidetracked by the reincarnated spirit of Genghis Khan....... with a keyboard. *cough*

BuzzCutPsycho · 2012-04-15, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmical

See thats what i mean, the enforcement there was the employment of possitive feedback in a game which had very little systems in place to do so automatically.

I mean it is a common thing nowadays to have an "outfit member of the week", but it seems like there should be other ideas for people to suggest.

... aslong as we dont get sidetracked by the reincarnated spirit of Genghis Khan....... with a keyboard. *cough*

Alexander the Great actually.

And like I said before - Meaningless frill is not needed when the encouragement for following directions is success. The people who need their names highlighted on an outfit's website in order to perform are akin to a waitress from TGI Fridays who needs flair on her apron to do her job more effectively.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-04-15, 04:58 PM

I'm just eating popcorn at this point.

Cosmical, to answer your question. Yes. It is possible to blend the hardcore and community aspects in a successful outfit. Being able to be both is simply not buying into the mentality that you always have to do things one way. In TFS-J our voice comms could go from story time to dead serious gameplay at the drop of a hat because it reflected the state the fight. Having people who actually enjoy each other's company and a have friendly attitude to new members breeds camaraderie. The building of traditions and jokes over time also helps cement the community in and outside of the game.

The problem that I've found is that building a good community is easy but keeping it together is hard. People care about what they like and people don't agree on a lot of things. So conflict is constantly brewing somewhere in the group and the ability to deal with it is what decides if the clan sticks around.

There are also long term and short term threats to the group probably the biggest of which is finding replacements for the leadership when they get tired of dealing with the continual stresses but still want to play. Also the leader not being stupid enough to think that he/she always has the best solution or indeed a solution at all helps.

Red Beard · 2012-04-15, 05:04 PM

^ Good Post

Cosmical · 2012-04-15, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

I'm just eating popcorn at this point.

Cosmical, to answer your question. Yes. It is possible to blend the hardcore and community aspects in a successful outfit. Being able to be both is simply not buying into the mentality that you always have to do things one way. In TFS-J our voice comms could go from story time to dead serious gameplay at the drop of a hat because it reflected the state the fight. Having people who actually enjoy each other's company and a have friendly attitude to new members breeds camaraderie. The building of traditions and jokes over time also helps cement the community in and outside of the game.

The problem that I've found is that building a good community is easy but keeping it together is hard. People care about what they like and people don't agree on a lot of things. So conflict is constantly brewing somewhere in the group and the ability to deal with it is what decides if the clan sticks around.

There are also long term and short term threats to the group probably the biggest of which is finding replacements for the leadership when they get tired of dealing with the continual stresses but still want to play. Also the leader not being stupid enough to think that he/she always has the best solution or indeed a solution at all helps.

That is the type of thing someone would say who... blah blah sucks....blah blah....better than......leadership.......blah veteran blah....virginity.....blah.

Its nice to see that some people make it work, lets hope we can make some decent communities and that PS2 allows for some in depth strategies to allow people to flourish as leaders.

The ability to back hack will be missed, or atleast... I hope that in PS2 with the Hex system that it is not a total practical impossibility. I love the thought of hunkering down and pulling people from the front while we hold out for as long as possible.

Grognard · 2012-04-15, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

The problem that I've found is that building a good community is easy but keeping it together is hard. People care about what they like and people don't agree on a lot of things. So conflict is constantly brewing somewhere in the group and the ability to deal with it is what decides if the clan sticks around.

There are also long term and short term threats to the group probably the biggest of which is finding replacements for the leadership when they get tired of dealing with the continual stresses but still want to play. Also the leader not being stupid enough to think that he/she always has the best solution or indeed a solution at all helps.

Agreed, part of the vision to me, seems to be to make dealing with those kinds of problems... also part of the delegation process. Have folks that have shown some restraint and maturity be delegated responsibility for something like a "tribunal" where they can hear what is going on, or what happened, before a decision is made. Even going so far as to have a rank, and/or billet system to reward folks willing to step up to the plate as jurors/tribunes, whatever. In only the most severe cases should the outfit leader get into this, since he must maintain a aire of impartiality, or rather partiality to all...

A mini-judicial system is not hard, and gets a ton of bang for the buck... People understand just by its existence, that there is a unified front, and mechanics in place for good behaviour. However, you must always be consistent, and fair, and never let testosterone pull the trigger... I guess what I am saying is, let everyone get a peice of this particular issue, the power of ones peers can govern the bad apples, better than a bitch session.

(I play all factions, but my daughter loves Vanu, so I will be mostly there)

Cosmical · 2012-04-15, 05:27 PM

Can i point out that the two voices of insight and sanity are both vanu.

hmmmmmmmmm....

Red Beard · 2012-04-15, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Grognard

(I play all factions, but my daughter loves Vanu, so I will be mostly there)

Cool; if you don't mind, message me on here if you get involved with leadership in an outfit with the NC. I am generally a fiercely independent kind of guy, but am more than willing to commit to leadership that invests in their guys as stated above.

*tip of the hat*

Red Beard · 2012-04-15, 05:34 PM

Can i point out that the two voices of insight and sanity are both vanu.

The aliens must be giving them useful knowledge! lol

Grognard · 2012-04-15, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho

Alexander the Great actually.

And like I said before - Meaningless frill is not needed when the encouragement for following directions is success. The people who need their names highlighted on an outfit's website in order to perform are akin to a waitress from TGI Fridays who needs flair on her apron to do her job more effectively.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...nder-the-great

Perhaps you would be interested in this, assuming you can still find a copy... I used to play this game circa 1975-78, was pretty cool in my opinion... It modeled fairly decently the effect of phalanx locking poor persian troops in place until the seperation of the flank and center allowed Alexanders companion cavalry to penetrate to the rear...

Edit: Btw, it was not my intention to make any kind of joke. After I reread my post I see the possibility of an unintended play on words... this really is a good game, albeit old.