SmedBlog: eSports Support - Page 4

Phantasmio · 2012-08-11, 09:59 PM

I really dislike the idea of eSports if it is going to end up affecting the gameplay. WoW, for example, gave the best gear out to those who played a lot of Arena matches, which effectively killed the Battlegrounds feature of WoW by making all gear earned through BGs absolutely useless. The Arena gear was essentially the best gear you could get in that game and if eSports messing up PS2 in a manner such as this, I'm completely against it. If they can avoid changing gameplay, then by all means, include it.

sagolsun · 2012-08-11, 10:07 PM

Seems most of the community is against e-sports. I, for one, have trouble understanding how e-sports could fit into the game.

PS2 isn't tennis. PS2 is WAR.

Goku · 2012-08-11, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Phantasmio

I really dislike the idea of eSports if it is going to end up affecting the gameplay. WoW, for example, gave the best gear out to those who played a lot of Arena matches, which effectively killed the Battlegrounds feature of WoW by making all gear earned through BGs absolutely useless. The Arena gear was essentially the best gear you could get in that game and if eSports messing up PS2 in a manner such as this, I'm completely against it. If they can avoid changing gameplay, then by all means, include it.

RPG is not a FPS first off. I don't see how SOE doing a eSport type of game play would change any of the weapons, armor, or implants either.

super pretendo · 2012-08-11, 10:12 PM

its not the "gear" that we are worried about. It's the focus of the game. If the game is split into to compartments with wildly different design philosophies, something is already very wrong.

RoninOni · 2012-08-11, 10:27 PM

I think the way to support "eSports" is to not treat PS2 like a sport... but like a war.

Have "war journalists" who stream to the internet. Could maybe be a special character type (ie; war journalists are a 4th faction you select who take no part in the war, they're only their for coverage)

Factions could also have their own "journalist" class but they'd still count as that faction and would have some special rules who knows...

Anyways, this way there's still that twitch.tv focused aspect, but done in a way appropriate for the type of game it is.

super pretendo · 2012-08-11, 10:31 PM

I agree, but that's outside of the definition of an eSport. The problem here is that there will be too many different severs for anyone to give a shit about happenings. But perhaps it could work, with big awesome battles being covered.

Anything is better than sinking into the mediocrity of the rehashed modern FPS

**Smed** · 2012-08-11, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by super pretendo

I agree, but that's outside of the definition of an eSport. The problem here is that there will be too many different severs for anyone to give a shit about happenings. But perhaps it could work, with big awesome battles being covered.

Anything is better than sinking into the mediocrity of the rehashed modern FPS

you are thinking way too narrowly IMO. How many of you watch anything on Twitch TV? I do. I don't play Starcraft II but I watch the hell out of it. It is gradually taking on a lot of the time I used to spend watching TV (which isn't a ton anyways since I spend most of my free time gaming).

Do not think of an Esport the way they exist now. Planetside 2 will not fit into that square hole. However imagine a 500 person outfit fighting another 500 person outfit with cameras posted (time delayed) at a bunch of locations around the world and spectators able to follow people around the map at various locations. Imagine really good Casters following the best players on each side (maybe it's even all 3 empires fighting). Imagine a Season where we allow outfits to register (with requirements about size, etc) and be tracked during that season on a huge number of stats.

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

Inq · 2012-08-11, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Smed

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

I did... and I still find it stupid.

Is that just me?

Grims · 2012-08-11, 11:42 PM

I think that sounds great smed! People will cry about things no matter how good it is.

I think you guys are taking this game to great places, keep up the good work!

**Smed** · 2012-08-11, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Inq

I did... and I still find it stupid.

Is that just me?

it took me a long time. At some point it's like watching the olympics.

(oh god there is a joke I want to make right now that you can probably guess but I will be PC and not make it.)

it's cool to be able to watch amazing players while drinking.

Roy Awesome · 2012-08-11, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Smed

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

I don't think you will find many commentators who are willing to just start talking about the game. Honestly, I'd rather play the game rather than spectate and talk over the sounds of battle, hoping people tune in and watch me.

However, instead of supporting esports, having ingame streaming options, like being able to directly pipe game output to twitch...that would be cool. I would look more to the DayZ community rather than the Starcraft community. Starcraft works because it's 15-20 minutes of fast paced action, to where DayZ is more about the story about how to get to somewhere.

I'm more than happy to stream my gameplay with a bit of delay. I don't want to commentate fights because i'd rather be playing in them.

**Smed** · 2012-08-11, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Roy Awesome

I don't think you will find many commentators who are willing to just start talking about the game. Honestly, I'd rather play the game rather than spectate and talk over the sounds of battle, hoping people tune in and watch me.

However, instead of supporting esports, having ingame streaming options, like being able to directly pipe game output to twitch...that would be cool. I would look more to the DayZ community rather than the Starcraft community. Starcraft works because it's 15-20 minutes of fast paced action, to where DayZ is more about the story about how to get to somewhere.

I'm more than happy to stream my gameplay with a bit of delay. I don't want to commentate fights because i'd rather be playing in them.

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

Roy Awesome · 2012-08-11, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Smed

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

Sure, but Day9 has something...simpler... to talk about. He can sit down and analyze a matchup, comment about very specific decision points about how things come to a conclusion. Planetside 2 is just too big for an individual to actually make that large of a difference once the fight starts. Talking about a 1v1 matchup is much easier than a 100v100 battle over a plant. Fights tend to last very long, and have many different threads leading to a conclusion that following them for one or two people is simply impossible.

Secondly, People only tend to watch commentary during matches that actually mean something. I know there are counter examples to this (Purge's dota 2 pubcasts, day9 daily), but you don't see people like MrBitter and others casting unless they have an event they are doing. What about PS2 would entice those kind of audiences (and therefore the best casters) to watch?

I'm not saying that esports isn't a great path. I would immensely prefer for you guys to support the Destiny's and SingSings of Planetside 2 rather than the Day9s and Huskys...The players that play the game and stream themselves playing. They don't have someone filling space and talking about tactics and strategy, they carry the show based on their own personality and skill in a game.

Helwyr · 2012-08-11, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Smed

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

Really good television is Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad, not season 345566 of some reality TV show. But, your analogy hits home for me nonetheless, just not in the way you intended. You're trying to sell us on the reality TV quality type entertainment in the form of esports. What I, and I think many others want is something a little bit more in depth than that. I love getting invested in my chosen Faction, being immersed in the game world, and neck deep in action and drama.

I'm sure there will be some that will love this esport stuff, I'm not among them. If you can do it without impacting the real game in any way then those in the community that share my view won't have anything to complain about.

Anabuki · 2012-08-11, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by super pretendo

If there has to be vapid esports support, make it like the EVE alliance tournament. Outfits can sign up for a special event that happens every so often with predetermined rules and battle space.

This seems to be the best way to go about it. That way, outfits have to come up with their own tactics and strategies based off the current available equipment/stats/balancing, instead of the game changing to revolve around them. Having it only happen once a year also prevents the bitching and moaning when it comes to 'pub' vs competitive balance, but hopefully with good beta testing and initial balancing it should be kept to a minimum. Of course factions/servers can also hold their own smaller scale unofficial outfit tournaments, but the developers wont have to change the game around unofficial competitions.

I think EVE is one of the games the devs should look to in regards to e-Sports, even though it's not a particularly big thing for the average EVE player. As far as I know we'll be most happy with e-Sports as an option for those that want to participate, not as something we have an obligation to participate in if we want the best experience of the game.