New Tower "Barriers"

[Mietz]

I don't really see the point of people supporting this with "it's a start".

It's not, it's completely useless. It's as much a start as trying to extinguish the sun with a water pistol.

I can already see Bulldogs/HE Lightnings easily shooting over and behind the barricades, killing everyone with splash.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Mietz

I don't really see the point of people supporting this with "it's a start".

It's not, it's completely useless. It's as much a start as trying to extinguish the sun with a water pistol.

I can already see Bulldogs/HE Lightnings easily shooting over and behind the barricades, killing everyone with splash.

Bulldogs/HE lightnings were already spamming the top floor of these towers. But now it looks like they have to work those shots in between barricades which to me is a good thing.

[Mietz]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Bulldogs/HE lightnings were already spamming the top floor of these towers. But now it looks like they have to work those shots in between barricades which to me is a good thing.

no they don't, as long as the HE can detonate behind/above the barricade on the wall, they will kill anyone behind the barricade.

They will probably not OHK them, but they will grind them down or flush them out, which will have the same effect as not having the barricades.

The problem is this:

Obvious cover like that signifies where infantry can be found, so cover will be shelled until the infantry comes out from it.
You only moved the HE camping spot a few meters to the left/right of where it was before, it changes nothing.

Its the same effect as with AV/AA turrets on bases, they are a great idea for "defense" on paper, in practice they are coffins.
Anything that obviously draws fire (doorways, "windows", barricades, walls, turrets) is not helping defense or protects from anything.

What the barricades do is create artificial choke points for the defending infantry.

Congratulations, I now know exactly where to aim my Bulldog, thx.

Do you know what helps defense?
Doors.

[Figment]

@Mietz: depends on splash radius.

Crennels and merlons have helped protect infantry from projectiles for millennia. The angle to fire over a merlon increases the distance at which splash explodes. It doesn't quite funnel defenders, but you should remember that without walls that block sight, infantry are constantly spotted and tracked by more enemies, while they now have to guess on what side of the merlon they will appear. It makes pooling in and out of cover more effective.

We are definitely not there yet and yes more extensive roof cover and wider roofs than splash would help against splash. Either which way it is an improvement.

[Mietz]

Originally Posted by Figment

@Mietz: depends on splash radius.

Crennels and merlons have helped protect infantry from projectiles for millennia. The angle to fire over a merlon increases the distance at which splash explodes. It doesn't quite funnel defenders, but you should remember that without walls that block sight, infantry are constantly spotted and tracked by more enemies, while they now have to guess on what side of the merlon they will appear. It makes pooling in and out of cover more effective.

We are definitely not there yet and yes more extensive roof cover and wider roofs than splash would help against splash. Either which way it is an improvement.

Yes, depends on splash radius.
If the redesign came with a splash nerf I'd rejoice, but alas it did not, making the barricades sort of a token effort.

Those barricades exist on other maps and they do absolutely nothing worth mentioning.

Also the tracking thing.
With Q being spammed by everyone in every direction, a non-enclosed space will not stop spotting the defenders. Especially with radar flashes being parked outside a sieged tower (I'm specifically talking about this tower design here, not in general).

The barricades should enclose the complete length of the terrace, with slits to shoot through for the defenders.
Whats the point of having a giant gap in the inner wall in the first place?

I guess depends on your understanding of improvement, but I don't see it as such at all.

[thegreekboy]

Originally Posted by Mietz

Doors.

Doors would be the best thing ever. Hackable by infiltrators. You would actually need to have dedicated cloakers in your outfit!

[Rat]

Originally Posted by Mietz

no they don't, as long as the HE can detonate behind/above the barricade on the wall, they will kill anyone behind the barricade.

They will probably not OHK them, but they will grind them down or flush them out, which will have the same effect as not having the barricades.

The problem is this:

Obvious cover like that signifies where infantry can be found, so cover will be shelled until the infantry comes out from it.
You only moved the HE camping spot a few meters to the left/right of where it was before, it changes nothing.

Its the same effect as with AV/AA turrets on bases, they are a great idea for "defense" on paper, in practice they are coffins.
Anything that obviously draws fire (doorways, "windows", barricades, walls, turrets) is not helping defense or protects from anything.

What the barricades do is create artificial choke points for the defending infantry.

Congratulations, I now know exactly where to aim my Bulldog, thx.

Do you know what helps defense?
Doors.

so if a door is there you wouldnt know that its a good place to aim your bulldog?

[Bocheezu]

Originally Posted by Mietz

Obvious cover.

I don't view the new stuff as cover, I view them as just simple barricades against having a tank shell go through the entire tower and camp the dropdown out of the spawn. If people want to use them as cover and get farmed, then that's their problem; at least they were able to get out of the spawn without getting a tank shell to the face.

[Bloodlet]

I'll take what I can get.

[Mietz]

Originally Posted by Rat

so if a door is there you wouldnt know that its a good place to aim your bulldog?

Nope, as I don't see if there are enemies there.

Doors have this thing where they are opaque to my vision, while barricades (at least the ones in the screens) are open on about 200° and enemies are able to be spotted from above, left, right and behind.
There seldom will be a situation where I can't actually see the enemies running into or out of cover.

Doors (not -A- door) would make me have to guess if this is a camping spot or not, if enemies are currently there or not and, if following the PS1 design philosophy of having multiple doors (even double doors, creating something like an airlock) and exits, infantry farm would be greatly reduced.
Even better, doors would be needed to enter the facility by my -own- forces, so just spamming my HE at the door will be counter-productive and kill my own mans trying to enter.

But this is a problem of the spotting mechanic in general and bases being swiss cheese in PS2 with 1000 openings for people to be seen and shot at.

Again, I don't understand the purpose of having this large opening on floor one in the tower anyways. Its obviously there to -encourage- vehicle HE spam inside the tower, what else is it supposed to do?

If they wanted to protect the spawn from tank-spam, just completely close that huge hole. Not to mention that Tower-spawns drop you down into a confined box with one exit anyways, so WTF is the point?

Here, to be perfectly clear what I'm talking about:



On the "Before" picture, that hole. Just put a blue AV shield on it, like at amp stations, passable only by infantry.
There, problem solved.

[Hamma]

The negativity about every change around here is starting to piss even me off.. which is quite a feat.

I hope you guys realize the more negative we are the less relevant we become.

[Pella]

At the end of the day any change from the current build is good.

But this is a tiny change.

[Phantomdestiny]

actually i think those changes are very welcome . First of all it allows the denfender to settle/ entrench behind those walls instead of having to protect the spawn room from the top level like used to. secondly with those wall we can now put a fire base for HA to destroy the lightnings/MTB (which have HE so no more HE farm if you are coordinating right) . and if you are doing you job right you can also repair quickly the AA to destroy ESF's. People need to start thinking before they get angry . Those changes are very positive . there is also changes to the spawn inside the tower which we haven't seen yet

[Loban]

Originally Posted by Hamma

The negativity about every change around here is starting to piss even me off.. which is quite a feat.

I hope you guys realize the more negative we are the less relevant we become.

Amen!

Also, what is wrong with you people? You're complaining about extra cover that the devs gave us that we don't even have to use if we don't want to. Jesus, are you never satisfied? They didn't take cover away or change cover, they ADDED NEW COVER, cover that is completely optional. I think the new walls are great for high risk/high reward players like me who like to pop our heads out of the safety of the inner walls while still having a bit of extra cover to work with to give us time to reload and plan our next shot. I find them particularly useful for us HA players that need that little extra bit of safety to reload our rockets. No, it's not 100% safe, but every fraction of a second counts for an anti-vehicle HA. Any extra cover is a good thing, it gives the enemy just a bit less sight lines to shoot at us while giving us a spot to reload and get our bearing.

[KaskaMatej]

Hm, still no cover for repairing turrets. That would be a nice addition, like some side walls or an actual roof on the turret "bridges".