Planetside 2 - ESport? - Page 4

Graywolves · 2012-05-30, 10:56 PM

This forum overall is mostly against the idea of an E-Sport scene in Planetside2 for a number of valid reasons or concerns.

In another thread I stated that I don't think we've ever even scratched the surface of the possibilities when it comes to a competitive scene. I'm sure Higby has thought about it and I know that he once said that if we do put in an eSport scene that it will be some time after launch. He has also stated that he intends to make the core gameplay competitive in nature so that if a scene is added it will be easier to implement.

I'm very interested in this once it will start happening but it is a long ways off.

Xaine · 2012-05-30, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

He has also stated that he intends to make the core gameplay competitive in nature so that if a scene is added it will be easier to implement.

My point summed up pretty well.

Rumblepit · 2012-05-30, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Kaw

Just a random example, but it may be the case that in a 666v666v666 setting, aircraft get completely demolished by the massive amounts of anti-air. At the same time, in the 50v50 "esports" mode, there is less stuff shooting up and aircraft is completely overpowered. In a situation like this, half of the community would hate SOE for not buffing aircraft, and half of the community would hate SOE if they changed aircraft.

This is just a random situation that may or may not be the case, but situations like this were one of the biggest problems with arenas in WoW.

Edit: This wouldn't be nearly as big a problem if the game mode is only temporarily available, like you suggested. If that was how it worked, it wouldn't really be an esport but just a random special event.

DUDE!!!!!!!! SOE WONT MAKE THE RULES, THEY WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!! you have no clue what your talking about. esl has nothing to do with soe. nothing!!!!!!!!! you dont get this do you? not trying to be a troll but your talking jibberish . you need to do some research. one has nothing to do with the other.

l

Kaw · 2012-05-30, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

He has also stated that he intends to make the core gameplay competitive in nature so that if a scene is added it will be easier to implement.

That's the awesome thing about having a guy like Higby at the wheel. Most shooters aren't designed with competition in mind, and if the game really is competitive at the core gameplay level, some sort of 5v5 arena game type may turn out to be awesome. I could hypothetically see something like that being released post launch as a minigame or ladder or something if the devs really think it has potential, but I still don't see how full scale Planetside 2 will ever be able to call itself an esport.

Graywolves · 2012-05-30, 11:10 PM

I'm not quite in a creative mindset right now but I will say that putting in a competitive game mode and having a successful eSport are seperate cases but not for the reason most people would know.

eSport scene is still relatively new. The science in how to make one successful is limited to not even a handful of titles. If we look at SC2 we notice that we get to view the game exactly how the competitors do and we see all the information required to follow the game. You can easily keep track of the micro and macro gameplay and speculate how the game is going to turn out. In DOTA it is a little more chaotic as you have 10 players overall, it is difficult to really watch it analytical and so the appeal of a spectated game is almost entirely on the casters (this is still true in SC2 but not as heavily).

So while a fun competitive game mode in PS2 can be very successful an eSport scene out of it might be more difficult as the Spectator has multiple players to follow. I don't think it's at all impossible I just think that for it to work we would require a very interesting spectator mode interface in those game modes and that the casters would require the foresight to catch a player's skill from time to time as with every shooter that is spectated that is the one thing people really watch for, a player's twitch shot that looks epic.

tl;dr - Competitive game modes in the future can be very successful and their success might threaten the core gameplay unless regulated correctly. An eSport scene requires a very in-depth game mode and a spectator mode that allow's a bird's eye view, easy map navigation, and any player's view.

Kaw · 2012-05-30, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

DUDE!!!!!!!! SOE WONT MAKE THE RULES, THEY WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!! you have no clue what your talking about. esl has nothing to do with soe. nothing!!!!!!!!! you dont get this do you? not trying to be a troll but your talking jibberish . you need to do some research. one has nothing to do with the other.

How can anybody but SOE make the rules? The game can only be played on SOE servers and players have no control over any changes. Blizzard made the rules in WoW and Starcraft. Riot made the rules in LoL. Even in MLG's Halo and COD where the community had the most say, players had to pick and choose from the rules Bungie and Infinity Edge made.

Red Beard · 2012-05-30, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

This is the 6th time we have made this thread, and we have become very efficient at it.

i liked outfit wars, but yea it shouldn't be apart of the the regular game, jsut held every so often. also it should be a platoon of 30, thats well over the amount of people thats generally considered a competitive number for PvP.

lol! That's the best post I've seen all week!

SKYeXile · 2012-05-30, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Red Beard

lol! That's the best post I've seen all week!

i couldn't find the regular pic i use for it, CBFed making one...so ponies will suffice...its gonna be my theme now after i joined a brony WOT clan. :P

Xaine · 2012-05-30, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kaw

How can anybody but SOE make the rules? The game can only be played on SOE servers and players have no control over any changes. Blizzard made the rules in WoW and Starcraft. Riot made the rules in LoL. Even in MLG's Halo and COD where the community had the most say, players had to pick and choose from the rules Bungie and Infinity Edge made.

He means rules as in, certain things might be banned by MLG or whoever, if they're deemed too strong.

I played Socom 2 back in the day, and certain weapons and maps were banned on the Gamebattles Ladders due to Imbalance. Sujo was a map that gave a massive advantage to the defenders, for example.

Rumblepit · 2012-05-30, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Kaw

How can anybody but SOE make the rules? The game can only be played on SOE servers and players have no control over any changes. Blizzard made the rules in WoW and Starcraft. Riot made the rules in LoL. Even in MLG's Halo and COD where the community had the most say, players had to pick and choose from the rules Bungie and Infinity Edge made.

companies made the rules because they ran the competitions..soe can do this aswell, but they wont do well because they really dont know how to balance a game for a competitive sence, no offense .

esl was just a example ,,, one of many leagues ran by fans,and other companies .

2 years into the future just follow me here ... this mite help u to understand.

lets say im RGL rumblepits gaimng league , i host many games, and i have a great rep for catching hackers, and balanced gameplay. "this is what esl is known for".... i have 100,000 gamers that play on my leagues and i host 20 different games. i see ps2 outfit wars are up and running, pop is great game has millions of players. i see the combat, the outfit wars, match styles . then i come up with it. rules ::::: common pool only!!!!!!!!, no certs!!!!!,best 2 out of 3 to win,10 v 10 and 20 v 20 only!!!!!! must have same classes on each team!!!! 2 medics, 1 engy, 1 cloaker,6 assault ..... i get my sponsors to help me promote a turny, and then its on!!! SOE WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Kaw · 2012-05-31, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Xaine

He means rules as in, certain things might be banned by MLG or whoever, if they're deemed too strong.

I played Socom 2 back in the day, and certain weapons and maps were banned on the Gamebattles Ladders due to Imbalance. Sujo was a map that gave a massive advantage to the defenders, for example.

I see what yall are saying, and it seems we come from different competitive backgrounds. I played games like Starcraft and WoW extensively, and the developer set the rules almost entirely because they controlled the ladder and the servers. Yall played games on gamebattles and ESL where there wasn't an official ladder and the community picked the gametype and maps and guns to be used. The point is, if PS2 ever gets a competitive gamemode, it wont be a case of SOE releasing a traditional FPS and the community picking the rules they want to play by. If, by some miracle, we ever see another game mode besides the huge MMO one, it will be entirely on SOE servers by their rules. I'm speaking from my experience with WoW, the only other MMO esport that I'm aware of, but in that game the community could literally do nothing to change the way the game was played. PS2 will almost certainly always remain on SOE servers, and attempts to play on your own servers will leave you drowning in lawyers.

That being said, I still don't see any of the stuff we are talking about happening so I'm going to take a break from posting. Tried my best to keep it civil, and its been fun.

cellinaire · 2012-05-31, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

There's no ESport in PlanetSide.

I know Higby's all gung-ho about ESports and loves StarCraft, but apart from StarCraft in South Korea and DoTA there are no real ESports, and they're only big in countries that don't have big normal sports. It really is a strange StarCraft phenomena.

The only Teams in PlanetSide are the empires, and those teams play each other constantly every day in PlanetSide. If anything there might be "seasons" where empire success is measured by resource income, territory ownership, captures, and similar metrics which show that empire being successful against the other empires. They could also display that sort of thing each and every day in PlanetSide or through fan sites and apps.

Blizzard tried really hard to E-sportify WoW with Arenas like they did with StarCraft and it failed horribly. They're likely going to try the same thing with D3. Some things aren't suited to be ESports, and PlanetSide is definitely one of them. I would say any MMO shouldn't be an E-sport. Trying to make it one would only detract from the game and add silly mechanics that shouldn't be there.

I see E-sports the same way I see PvE content - keep it the hell away from PlanetSide 2!

...Bolded part. Not cool. Is the E-Sports an inferior sub-culture and abomination, or do you just simply want them to stay away from mmos?

Dreamcast · 2012-05-31, 12:28 AM

The thing is I don't want people training for an E-Sport.

I want clans to train for a massive war...Is cool to have outfit wars once in a while but it shouldn't be a regular thing because then we will have people dedicating themselves to 50 vs 50 fights or whatever the number is on some map.

Maybe just make it once a year thing...kind of like an olympics or just let players deal with it .

Razicator · 2012-05-31, 12:33 AM

Reason that E-sports will never gain as wide acceptance as regular sports is that you cannot build franchises around a game. Football has been out for dozens of years; any kid today can watch a game from 1920 and pretty much get everything going on. You think 80 years from now, people can look back at CoD and tell what's' going on compared to their games? Hell no. Things will look so out of date as well; physical sports don't go out of date, except minor rule updates.

There's big money in sports too, as you can see with all the professional sports teams. In E-Sports, unless a player can adapt to a new game every 5-10 years, he will fade out and lose startdom and franchise. For example, Tom Brady will be playing for many many years if the Patriots can help it, and their whole franchise is built around him. You just can't do that in an E-Sport, where rules and games change too much.

ESports are also just not as accessable to the average guy. Anybody can pick up a soccer ball and learn the ropes, or play some pickup football or basketball. Learning an E-Sport requires specialized equipment (better computer or a console), and often times much larger time sinks to learn the basics (ie forced leveling to unlock everything, or paying monthly fees, or playing a ton of time to unlock every weapon, etc). Everything in a sport is "unlocked" off the bat.
That's now though. Maybe in the future some of the problems with E-Sports iwll change.

KTNApollo · 2012-05-31, 12:35 AM

PlanetSide will not make a good eSport. Being able to switch roles on the fly will cause way too much chaos, and will likely cause artificial rules to be created. In DotA and StarCraft, there are little to no artificial rules because the games are made to be played competitively. PlanetSide is not designed to be an eSport, so it will not become an eSport.