Disappearance of Backpack and Trunk Storages - Page 4

Zulthus · 2012-06-17, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

I am not a PS1 vet, but as my interest in PS2 grows, I have gone and watched some streams of PS1. Every single person I watched was a one man army. Sure there were 30 or 40 people all from the same faction or outfit playing in the same area, but they weren't playing together.

I don't see how having a class system is "dumbing down" anything. Class systems have lots of benefits over a free form system. Limiting what an individual soldier can do makes him more reliant on his team to survive. This in turn breeds team play and more team oriented tactics.

A free form system (like the one that exists in the recent COD games) is harder to balance. It also allows for more cheap or annoying tactics. I'm all for a well balanced class system that promotes team play on its most fundamental level.

We wouldn't need a class system in the first place if they made the cert system similar to BR20 in the early life of Planetside. Nobody was a one man army. BR20 meant you had to pick a role to perform and that was the role you were good at. Now it's essentially the same as BR40, you can still do everything you want and don't have a defined role, difference is the only thing stopping you is an equipment terminal. You'll still be able to unlock everything in the game eventually.

Regardless of that, I was just saying, I don't personally have anything against the current system, I liked freeform inventory. No matter what people have said, just because you were a one man army didn't necessarily make you effective. There will always be lone wolves and there will always be team players. Carrying a Lasher and a Deci didn't change the pace of the game, and healing yourself only happened after you won a battle, so there's no point in saying it was OP.

But to the others complaining about 'inventory tetris', you act as if the simple process of putting together a unique loadout was actually a hard and tedious thing to do and learn. Please, give me a break. It takes ten seconds to learn the entire system and maybe 30 to make your own customized loadout. Once you're done with making your favorites you don't have to touch it again. You'd have to have the attention span of a carrot to complain about something like that.

Revanmug · 2012-06-17, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

But to the others complaining about 'inventory tetris', you act as if the simple process of putting together a unique loadout was actually a hard and tedious thing to do and learn. Please, give me a break. It takes ten seconds to learn the entire system and maybe 30 to make your own customized loadout. Once you're done with making your favorites you don't have to touch it again. You'd have to have the attention span of a carrot to complain about something like that.

so, it was a fairly useless mechanic since it's a do it once and forget. Sounds like a fairly good idea to remove it and change things around don't you think.

Zulthus · 2012-06-17, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by Revanmug

so, it was a fairly useless mechanic since it's a do it once and forget. Sounds like a fairly good idea to remove it and change things around don't you think.

No, because 1. 'inventetris' allows for the most customization and options for your personal loadout and 2. when I said "you don't have to touch it again" I meant to select that favorite you just have to go up and hit 1-10 and you have that loadout again. You don't have to do the creation multiple times if you don't want to. Saves the trouble of a clunky loadout select respawn screen.

BattsTR · 2012-06-17, 02:34 AM

Screw classes. Every fps now is about classes. Part of the fun of PS1 was not having to pick a class. I enjoyed the system in PS1, it added an rpg element into an fps. People that will lone wolf will still do that with classes, and people that will team up would still do that without them. Fact is you should be able to do both, and have the loadout you prefer.

CutterJohn · 2012-06-17, 02:53 AM

Customization makes everything bland, because everything must be balanced for the worst case scenario/op combinations. I.e. Grenades can't be powerful because people could then load up 50 of the things.

Classes impose ridiculously arbitrary limitations. Why can't a LA carry a sniper rifle? Its ridiculous.

There is no perfect solution. Any system has issues.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-17, 03:02 AM

The classes seem more or less fine to me (if unnecessary), and it's certainly easier to balance them against one another than the old way. I just can't stand people who know nothing blaming Planetside's failure on its mechanics, many of which were quite good. Scale and persistence were not its only defining features.

The dedicated support whores, R-Exo snipers, and infiltrator saboteurs definitely got the shaft with the class system as is though, there's no denying that.

CutterJohn · 2012-06-17, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by GreatMazinkaise

R-Exo snipers

Exactly the point. You can't snipe with a tanky character anymore, making you more vulnerable to counterfire with non sniper weapons.

Would you have been fine with MAX units and Vehicles having Bolt Drivers or the equivalent in PS1? If you say, no, that would not have been fine, then you understand exactly why it was done.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-17, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Exactly the point. You can't snipe with a tanky character anymore, making you more vulnerable to counterfire with non sniper weapons.

Would you have been fine with MAX units and Vehicles having Bolt Drivers or the equivalent in PS1? If you say, no, that would not have been fine, then you understand exactly why it was done.

Doesn't hurt my feelings (not a fan of snipers in general), but the infiltrator suit may actually prove to be better.

Daffan · 2012-06-17, 03:31 AM

I really liked the term earlier in the thread of "supersoldiers" and a good point was made, it's even footing there. I think it's stupid that a rexo type character can pilot but anywho....

The restriction of grenades I am reading (someone referenced smoke grenades) is down right retarded sounding...

Maybe the whole thing doesnt have to change drastically but i liked choosing how much ammo / med kits and other jazz was out there, and everyone else got the same options.......

Originally Posted by Zulthus

We wouldn't need a class system in the first place if they made the cert system similar to BR20 in the early life of Planetside. Nobody was a one man army. BR20 meant you had to pick a role to perform and that was the role you were good at. Now it's essentially the same as BR40, you can still do everything you want and don't have a defined role, difference is the only thing stopping you is an equipment terminal. You'll still be able to unlock everything in the game eventually.

This is also true and a good point to add... I dont particulary care about the ranks or having all the certifications at once (which at the beginning made me frown), but yeah... Its fine if they can do everything and anything they like ( as it is proposed now) however not if they can do it all in 1 suit.. (HA now..)

qbert2 · 2012-06-17, 03:57 AM

I'm not too worried about this. I think there's a greater potential for more versatility in loadout with this new system than with the old one.

MrTinkles · 2012-06-17, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

I am not a PS1 vet, but as my interest in PS2 grows, I have gone and watched some streams of PS1. Every single person I watched was a one man army. Sure there were 30 or 40 people all from the same faction or outfit playing in the same area, but they weren't playing together.

I think I'm veering off-topic...but guess others have already done that...so...

I was intrigued by this comment..

This may be true these days...but you could not be further from the truth if you are trying to describe the game in its early years.

A decent squad with a squad leader who half knew what they were doing (or even better, several good squads working together) with a mix of armours/weapons/vehicles chosen for the particular situation we faced....would kick ass...and be more than a match for much larger groups of "one man armies". Of course there were always plenty who couldn't/wouldn't work together but they usually spent most of their time in-game respawning...

I have never, never played a game where the tactics could be so deep and cooperation between players was so important and where a good mix of "classes" was such a help (god knows I've played just about everything out there!)...

Whether this is the case in PS2 remains to be seen....I rather (sadly) doubt it. It will, however, be due to rather more than just whether we can loot backpacks!

I sometimes wonder if the barrier to PS1 ever becoming mainstream success was partly this aspect. Your average fps/mmo gamer's appreciation of cooperation tends to stop at "let's go down this street next time"... Even that's too much for a lot of people. I guess one problem for the PS2 team is to cater for these players as well as those (which would include me) who are happy to wait a few minutes while we assemble a group that can "get the job done"....

Zebasiz · 2012-06-17, 04:20 AM

You know, I've been wondering. With Planetside 2 having a class system... is it REALLY different from PS1?
Aside from choosing what went where in your loadout, It seems the same.
Planetside 1: As you "level up" you spend your certs into different focuses, Perhaps engineering or medic or heavy assault etc. Then you would ahve your loadout for that speciffic task on your favorite menu. But are able to equip a different loadout if you wanter to do something else. Example: I spend points for the medic certs. I have my medic loadout in the fav. menu. But I can select a loadout for assaulting If I chose to, which could contain no medic device in it. I may not be as good an assault, as I didn't cert the armor or weapons for it yet, but I could still do it.
In Planetside 2: I can spend points into different cert trees. speccing into the infil. class. And under that class tab I can select different loadout for him. my weapons, tools, camo, etc. And save that to a favorite tab within that class. But if I desired, I could go and play Heavy assault, not being as good at it, but still playing it, with a loadout I set up and set to a favorite on that class tab.
Really the only difference I am seeing is that you have to click 1 extra tab before selecting your Fav. option.
All it seems to be doing is keeping me from being able to heal myself with the medical tool while weilding a massive chaingun, which was possible in PS1. Seems like that does more to keep people from being a "super soldier" and forces them to rely on teamates.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-17, 04:22 AM

MrTinkles, alongside your comments it should be pointed out that the MARKOV victory at E3 2005 was achieved entirely by BR 6 to 9s working in Teamspeak coordinated platoons. All of them had Medium Assault and the Mosquito certed, but were otherwise free to determine their own loadouts.

At least 6 of the Monolith caps were achieved by members of MARKOV, despite superior numbers of NC/VS (the other empires gave up towards the end of the event accusing us of team stacking).

SergeantNubins · 2012-06-17, 06:17 AM

I was a bit concerned with the loss of lootable corpses. Not because of wanting to loot other faction guns, i dont really care about that and never did. However, in PS1 my outfit were a tight knit team that stuck together like glue and focused heavily on taking a key location (CC, gen etc) and holding it for as long as it took. Everyone had to be certed advanced medic, we avoided guns that ran out of ammo quickly (gauss mainly) and our maxes had 75% of their storage dedicated to caarrying med/eng ammo, shotgun shells and grenade packs. There were times where we were only finally uprooted from a position because we had all literally run out of ammo and were down to knives. When backpacks of fallen oponents stayed long enough they were scavenged as quickly as possible. Thats the part that concerns me, ammo management on long ops.

However.. the more i think about it.. the more i dont care about this. The addition of an ammo pack for one of the classes helps manage this system so we dont have to rely on the very flakey backpack system, most backpacks instantly vanished in heavy fighting anyway, you only got a chance when things were quiet. So having a more relliable way of resupplying seems like a plus.

I also think this class system is only going to encourage team play. The way i see things going, having watched all the e3 live streams, is that outfit squads will end up assigning themselves capture points within a base to take and hold and you are going to need teamwork to do it effectively. There were plenty of times in the e3 steams where i saw teamwork paying off, but you cant expect to see serious organised teamplay from a random mix of people like that. But I think a squad of 10 will probably have a makeup of 2 x maxes, 2 x engineers, 2 x medics, 2 x light assault and 2 x heavy assault. If id swap anything out id replace the heavy assault with engineers or medics. And if what they were saying during the live stream is anything to go by (the ammo pack probably wont end up being a light assault item), id probably strip that down further to just engineers, medics and maxes. Whatever the case, im really looking forward to experimenting and developing new tactics.. and there seems to be much much more depth and thinking needed to get it right. After all last time, we just needed 2 maxes and 8 Rexos to do everything we needed.

SergeantNubins · 2012-06-17, 06:24 AM

Oh also, with regards to the customisable inventory .. im sure a lot of people liked tinkering with their invetory slots (myself included) and I had a rexo loadout i liked of med/eng tool equipped, two jackhammers (one loaded with AV for maxes the other ai for normal use) 3 med kits, command tool, rek, 1 spare eng ammo, 1 spare med ammo and the rest spare shotgun ammo. But... this sytem has just been upgraded with the tools and perks unlocks. I imagine stuff like med kits will be a cert unlock you pay resources to use, much like hand grenades, it certainly seems to work in that way, so I dont think i have really lost anything with the changes.