Command Ranks - Page 4

Whalenator · 2012-03-08, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I'm not seeing what the problem is to those who do not like it? Gaining Command XP will only allow you to unlock command tools. Those tools will only affect those who are following you.

Global Chat is dead. The devs saw the spam and nixed the shiit out of it. Commanders will not get "command weaponry", such as the Orbital Strike. It's all command tools. You will only see the chat of those you follow.

Actually, I think Higby's intent was for missions to provide as both an intra-outfit and an inter-outfit coordination medium. Even if you weren't in any outfit at all, or in a very small one, leaders with oodles of followers would make missions available to you.

NewSith · 2012-03-08, 06:06 PM

I'm all for this system. I mean the game is not conscript military and you're not obliged to follow anyone/thing. Especially considering your outfit can give you missions of its own choice. The whole "popularity contest" fear is pointless. Even if the guy gets elected every time he'll have to make right choiuces and be communicative. Otherwise everyone's just gonna ignore him and he'll end up in the gutter. Afterall many mmorpgs do such a thing and it works. The "leaders" ARE most of the time respected by the population and act deserving the respect.

Fortress · 2012-03-08, 06:09 PM

It didn't take long to figure out who knew their shit in PS1. I don't that is going to change in PS2, regardless of whatever system they decide upon.

Whalenator · 2012-03-08, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

The whole "popularity contest" fear is pointless. Even if the guy gets elected every time he'll have to make right choiuces and be communicative. Otherwise everyone's just gonna ignore him and he'll end up in the gutter.

So you're assuming if you put someone in power he or she won't abuse it?
It will just force them to become a better person?

EDIT: @Fortress this game is MUCH more widely advertised.

sylphaen · 2012-03-08, 06:28 PM

What kind of power would they abuse anyway ? Setting up stupid missions ?

Unfollow that loser asap before it gets worse.

Opposite to PS1, their power will only come from the power you are willing to give them and not their capacity to farm CEP.

And if you can follow more leaders, you can choose between more missions.

The new twitter command has a structuring effect but if you compare it to an outfit structure, it's inverted. An outfit is made bottom-up (members join to create a group), the twitter command is made top-down (many commanders create a set of efforts you can participate to).

I think this new system covers almost all of the concerns we had with PS1 CR structure.

Fortress · 2012-03-08, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Whalenator

So you're assuming if you put someone in power he or she won't abuse it?
It will just force them to become a better person?

EDIT: @Fortress this game is MUCH more widely advertised.

So? I'll be following the guys I followed in PS1. I don't care how many dipshit commanders there are -- the good ones will rise to the top just like they did before and I don't know why any serious player would decide to follow somone based purely on some odd popularity metric.

Skitrel · 2012-03-08, 06:34 PM

There's a simple solution to all this twitter popularity business.

Have a command stats board, with all the people that make missions, list their missions, list their successes and failures as commanders.

Repeatedly successful commanders will gather more and more followers the more they succeed and prove their ability. Commanders that fail will lose supporters the those that are showing successes. This can almost be a Commander Leaderboard of sorts.

Through this you remove the popularity contest and turn it into a results contest. Those who get results will stay at the top, those that do not will lose support, nobody wants to fail all the time. People want to win.

Easy.

sylphaen · 2012-03-08, 06:36 PM

There will be outfits and twitter commanders.

For casual players:
- if you know some good leaders, follow them.
- if you like participating with some outfits, also follow the leader from that outfit (you do not need to join them to participate !).

For outfit players:
- If you only want to play with your outfit, so be it, just join the outfit.
- If you want extra options, twit follow other leaders to interact.

This is an open system where no one is locked and forced to suffer terrible commanders. There is overlap to help integrate outfits too.

To me, it looks like a good system... and also pretty active:

Log in > Pick up a mission > Go for it !

Knightwyvern · 2012-03-08, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Whalenator

So you're assuming if you put someone in power he or she won't abuse it?
It will just force them to become a better person?

No, he's saying if you follow them and they turn out to be shit, you won't follow them anymore. It self-regulates based on merit, purely because people like winning/doing well.

Whalenator · 2012-03-08, 07:51 PM

I don't know why I need to say this over and over again.
As mentioned in the video the only thing a "follow" will merit is granting the individual followed more power. It may influence their missions to be available to you more often but don't let the word "follow" deceive you. It's purely a reference to twitter.

Knightwyvern · 2012-03-08, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Whalenator

I don't know why I need to say this over and over again.
As mentioned in the video the only thing a "follow" will merit is granting the individual followed more power. It may influence their missions to be available to you more often but don't let the word "follow" deceive you. It's purely a reference to twitter.

Because we already know what you're saying, and it doesn't matter. If a commander "abuses" their power, not only will the most likely lose a lot of that power because of losing their "followers," but you aren't forced to do their missions if you don't want to.

No one expects people to suddenly get better at command because they have more people following them. No one expects a person to be less of an asshole for the same reason. But when you suck at it you won't last. People will just stop doing your missions.

RavenUSC3 · 2012-03-08, 08:29 PM

Again I didn't read through this thread so my apologies if anyone has already said this, but what about a simple rep point system or +1 or -1. If a commander has done a good job or has a great idea, you can give him a rep point. Maybe you can only give a certain commander either a positive or negative once in a 24 hour period so you don't get spammed, but I believe this system would prevent a lot of the foolishness from the command channel for fear of revolt. In fact, commanders at a certain rep level should probably have their communication privileges limited or taken away.

Sure there'd be flaws and this guy would accidentally TK someone and he goes and tells his entire outfit to give him a negative rep point, but I believe it would ultimately work itself out. I mean if we're talking one a day per person, someone could be up in the tens of thousand rep points if they're doing a good job.

Either way, I do believe there should be some kind of commander window everyone can pull up that lists all active commanders. Here you can subscribe to a commander, mute one, add/subtract rep point, etc... You could potentially sort it by rep points or Commander rank....who knows. These rep points should also be private and never alerted to the commander too, just in case you join a zerg outfit and come to your senses and realize your outfit leader is a moron, he won't neccessarily know you didn't give him a rep point....you can continue to zerg it up and he'll never know the difference...you won't be bullied into giving him a rep point basically. (Hopefully at that point you'd find a real outfit)

Whalenator · 2012-03-08, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by RavenUSC3

Again I didn't read through this thread so my apologies if anyone has already said this, but what about a simple rep point system or +1 or -1. If a commander has done a good job or has a great idea, you can give him a rep point. Maybe you can only give a certain commander either a positive or negative once in a 24 hour period so you don't get spammed, but I believe this system would prevent a lot of the foolishness from the command channel for fear of revolt. In fact, commanders at a certain rep level should probably have their communication privileges limited or taken away.

Sure there'd be flaws and this guy would accidentally TK someone and he goes and tells his entire outfit to give him a negative rep point, but I believe it would ultimately work itself out. I mean if we're talking one a day per person, someone could be up in the tens of thousand rep points if they're doing a good job.

Either way, I do believe there should be some kind of commander window everyone can pull up that lists all active commanders. Here you can subscribe to a commander, mute one, add/subtract rep point, etc... You could potentially sort it by rep points or Commander rank....who knows. These rep points should also be private and never alerted to the commander too, just in case you join a zerg outfit and come to your senses and realize your outfit leader is a moron, he won't neccessarily know you didn't give him a rep point....you can continue to zerg it up and he'll never know the difference...you won't be bullied into giving him a rep point basically. (Hopefully at that point you'd find a real outfit)

Not sure about that.
It's a good idea balance-wise, but the ability to downvote a commander could lead to alot of problems.

RavenUSC3 · 2012-03-08, 08:57 PM

Maybe its not, maybe it could be. With the right tweaking I think it could work. Maybe you only get ten votes a day as an individual, meaning you probably just won't waste it. I just don't see how you could do positive voting without negative though or else everyone would just continue to gain votes and max out like the current CR5 system with no fear of repercussions. I think it really would weed out those that don't need to be commanding, or are just using the command channels for fun or annoyances. It wouldn't stop them from commanding to be voted down, but would limit their communication abilities. If they clean up their act, within their small group that they command they can continue to get positive votes and work their way into gaining more communication capabilities, and therefore potential command of more troops, who can still disregard your orders without taking a rep point from you. If a guy is asking for help on Indar and your outfit is going to Amerish, you go to Amerish and that's that. If a guy keeps spamming for a raid he's doing with all caps and nonsense then you dock him, maybe mute him, and continue on your way.

Traak · 2012-03-09, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Hermes

Sure some guy may have more people following him because of borrowed popularity, but if you consistently do a better job word should eventually spread. You might not be able to fully overcome the inertia of a big name in a guild alliance, but that shouldnt bother you. If people are happy eating crap then they should be free to eat crap.

All in, I think it's a fascinating idea!

As a side note, history and literature is scattered with references of a weak/crazy leader or king being preferable to revolution because there is strength in the unity of following them...

And that sums up most of the outfit leaders I found in PS1.

"Do what I say, even if it is EXTREMELY STUPID, INEFFECTIVE, AND BORDERING ON BEING AN ABJECT TRAITOR to THE BATTLE/WAR/EMPIRE, or I will kick you out of the outfit before others choose to follow you instead of me as a result."

But, really, it isn't like we have a huge crop of Fortune 500 executives as customers of Sony, to put it mildly.