Big Concern: Hackers - Page 4

cryosin · 2012-04-19, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by RadarX

Realistically there are folks who feel the need to cheat in every game. Fortunately we have more than a decade of experience dealing with it and systems (including experienced Customer Service reps) will go in place to mitigate it.

In short, it's been thought about considerably.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

It's good to have more assurances that you take this seriously. I would ask what other tools you guys are using, but id rather deny the hackers the knowledge and watch them get banned =D.

Red Beard · 2012-04-19, 11:12 PM

No matter how much Anti-Cheat you place in a game, Hackers will find ways around it.

Why do people keep saying this? It's about mitigating the disturbance to legitimate customers.

Cheaters existing is not a reason to forsake mitigating the problem; and if they didn't even try to mitigate it; I wouldn't even waste my time downloading the game, much less pay for it.

TerranTitan · 2012-04-30, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Could some computer whiz answer something for me?

Would it be at all possible to encrypt whatever code SOE is using for programming, using a constantly shifting key?

Seems like the problem is that hackers learn the program code being used by the programmers, and can manipulate the game any way they want to with outside mods. Possible solution, as I see it, would be to make the base language something that changes easily based on a key, like a cipher.

Hackers exploit processes running in RAM to make a majority of their hacks. They also exploit the DirectX in the game to make things such as bounding boxes, name tags, ect. One of the best things the PS2 dev's can do is to make a majority of the coding functions server side vs. client side. If client side, people will be able to use memory editing tools to find things such as ammo count, speed, recoil, and spread. By making these things server side, it will take a great deal away from those who would exploit and ruin the game.

Unfortunately, PS2 will be using Punkbuster. Let's just hope there will be really good server admins in game, and maybe a vote kick system.

Stardouser · 2012-04-30, 08:36 AM

I have often wondered why an MMO like this, or even non-MMO but online games like Battlefield, can't do a rolling weekly re-encryption of certain files that hacks have to use?

Either way, obvious hackers always get taken care of quickly, what I hate to see is the long term hackers who you know hack but no one can prove it. They use low sensitivity aimbots so that there is no "snap" for anyone to see.

TerranTitan · 2012-04-30, 08:49 AM

^^ I agree. The obvious 'ragers' will get dealt with swiftly. It's the closet hackers that I'm concerned with. The lowered sensitivity aimbots are called smooth aim, or have settings to make you look legit.

Rabb · 2012-04-30, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I have often wondered why an MMO like this, or even non-MMO but online games like Battlefield, can't do a rolling weekly re-encryption of certain files that hacks have to use?

Not necessary if you set up the MD5 checks in punkbuster. I've said it before and I'll say it again punkbuster is a tool it needs configuring correctly to work. You don't just turn it on and forget about it. Servers that end up with hackers on, are in most instances running poorly setup loose configs.

Stardouser · 2012-04-30, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Rabb

Not necessary if you set up the MD5 checks in punkbuster. I've said it before and I'll say it again punkbuster is a tool it needs configuring correctly to work. You don't just turn it on and forget about it. Servers that end up with hackers on, are in most instances running poorly setup loose configs.

Well, I obviously don't know enough to know what that means, but I do know that people get past it; if both what you say could be done, and a weekly re-encryption of a few key files could be done, at least it would be an extra layer of defense. If nothing else, at least they'd have to break the encryption once per week.

TerranTitan · 2012-04-30, 02:37 PM

As long as there is money to be made off of a working hack, it'll be made. PB's only real effectiveness comes when somebody turns in a hack, and their team reverses it, and does a string-ban. Sadly, this is not always true. There are hack sites out there who have yet to be detected on BF3...

Being a F2P game, if cheaters are caught, they'll just make new accounts and keep going.

Lokster · 2012-05-01, 01:45 AM

From what I understand, Punkbuster is as effective as the support ($$) it receives from the game it is "protecting". Punkbuster works terribly on many titles because those titles are offering minimal compensation to Punkbuster for the protection. It's like buying anti-virus for your home computer. Typically there is a free or low price version and a full support, full protection service.

Developers pick the level of protection they desire weighing factors such as end-game performance impact, benefit/cost ratio, current needs, etc...

It's no wonder why AAA titles have PB updates daily and titles such as APB have PB updates once a month. Someone is clearly paying more for the service...

My point being, don't assume PB will be useless in PS2 because it's useless in a game like APB.

Udnknome · 2012-05-08, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by PlaceboCyanide

Another problem is that PS2 will be F2P, so any hackers that have their accounts terminated will just make another account. SOE could always ban IP addresses, but that's hurting business and doesn't work on dynamic IPs. Consistent updates and constant vigilance will be the only way

I've read this entire post and I really feel you guys are thinking too small. It's very easy to create a unique number for every computer using some very simple required items on the computer. Use something like the Mac address + Ascii equivalent Processor ID code + (whatever) windows product key. Put that value into a hash or AES algorithm, then send that info to sony. would create a very large unique id for each machine logged into the system.

Then you just ban this number. Depending on the components used, you could considerably increase the cost of being banned, and it will only affect their access to your software and services.

I know I'm not this smart, someone had to have thought of this before; with bandwidth as cheap (and required for this game), I'm unsure why it hasn't been done before.

Pyreal · 2012-05-08, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by PlaceboCyanide

Another problem is that PS2 will be F2P, so any hackers that have their accounts terminated will just make another account. SOE could always ban IP addresses, but that's hurting business and doesn't work on dynamic IPs. Consistent updates and constant vigilance will be the only way

Bold mine. I was under the impression that while this game will be F2P (meaning there are no subscription fees) a player is still required to Buy the game, either retail or digital, in order to play.

Is that inaccurate?
At launch can I simply go to planetside2.com and download the client and play?
I seriously doubt that. If a hacker gets banned he would have to go and buy a new copy and CD key in order to create a new account.

Lokster · 2012-05-08, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Bold mine. I was under the impression that while this game will be F2P (meaning there are no subscription fees) a player is still required to Buy the game, either retail or digital, in order to play.

Is that inaccurate?
At launch can I simply go to planetside2.com and download the client and play?
I seriously doubt that. If a hacker gets banned he would have to go and buy a new copy and CD key in order to create a new account.

Wow, old thread is new again...

Yes, your statement is inaccurate. PS2 will be completely free to play with no "box" or digital purchase required.

Baneblade · 2012-05-08, 11:01 PM

Thread isn't even two weeks old...

Goku · 2012-05-08, 11:07 PM

I think that was the one Skitrel made that got locked due to a bunch of reasons. As long as this one remains civil there is no reason to close it.

Bruttal · 2012-05-09, 06:22 AM

I know everyones all hyped up about this Oh its F2P and hackers can just create another account yadda yadda yadda. but How many email accounts will they make till they just give up?. theres so many ways to combat an issue like that.

One being if recently ban email from * ip address attempts to make a new account then deny account. two orginal user name recently ban Yourmomma new account made 0min-24hrs latter with *Yourmomma*
(enter filter algorithm's here also for people who would try and do urmomma or whatever).
three Person from this isp with username yourmomma recently ban trys to create an account approve it but force client to repatch all files.

am sure there are other ways to enforce it but these are some simple ways.