NoobHammer - Page 4

Veteran · 2003-11-25, 04:24 AM

Memory is huge in the lag equation also.

TeraHertz · 2003-11-25, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by delta

Yes, thank you. Someone smart on these forums, good point!

It takes 5 seconds to empty a lasher clip. It takes 4.6 seconds to reload it. Whats your point.

TeraHertz · 2003-11-25, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Veteran

Example 1: Surging Standard Armor guy with an Alienware 510023 and 7tb diamond lattice FTL internet connection. To people in-game, he's practically invisible and when he jumps, you'd have to be a mind-reader to use your .1 or so seconds to aim right on him before he opens fire at point-blank from your blind-side.

Example 2: 1.4ghz computer with 64mb graphics card and cable modem, doesn't use Surge and is called a retard and such for not using it, because it's pretty much understood you'd better have it or you're kinda gimpy (ahem or so I've heard). As you are moving along at a very reasonable speed, your opponents don't see you teleporting like mad and get easy beads with whatever weapon they are using, or Surge up to you and splatter you before your client even gets vital information about what's happening to you. You usually see a spinning screen and one or two frames of a guy Surging away from you.

Granted, these are just two out of many possible ways people could encounter Surge on the battlefield, and in both it's clear that Surge is naughty.

But will the devs remove it? Surging is Unsafe at Any Speed for a game that tries to make a fair experience for its players who don't have brand new PCs and broadband. I for one would rather play a little slower and mellower (i.e. the environment that would exist without Surge) so that everyone can get into the game.

Really, I think Surge is fvcking it up for everyone. I use it all the time (go figure) but I'd gladly give it up to possibly double the playerbase. Yes, I honestly think that Surge monkeys intimidate the shit out of n00bs and the teleportation effects are just too crappy looking to encourage by making Surge available.

I'd increase the footspeed of Infiltrator armor by 15%, Standard by 10%, Agile by 5% and kick Surge to the curb. I think people can and would happily get along without it, and people would enjoy the game more with the cheese factor reduced.

I second that. Or have surge work like the MAX AutoRun. It disables you're weapon for a few seconds after you stop running.

Scarecrowe · 2003-11-25, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Rayder

VS maxs have weaker armor than the other empire maxs, in other words, it takes less to kill them.

Since When do VS MAX's have less armour than other MAX's? They all have 650 dont they?

Warborn · 2003-11-25, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Scarecrowe

Since When do VS MAX's have less armour than other MAX's? They all have 650 dont they?

Some outdated information may still point to that. It was originally their intent to make VS MAX's less armored, but they decided that their flying ability isn't good enough to justify less armor. So, all MAX's are indeed equally armored.

Flammey · 2003-11-25, 08:46 AM

Blah, blah, blah. Bitch, bitch, bitch. That's all I hear.
I say, a friendly "Whatever." We all are going to have weapons we love to use, and weapons we despise to be used against us. Me, I despise cheaters and exploiters. Dying to weapons, experianced operators or not, doesn't matter to me. How do I know he's cheating? Well, if he disappears right in front of me when I'm killing him, that would count in my books as cheating.

infinite loop · 2003-11-25, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by keaoi

Beg to differ. I fear the TR MAXes. I play TR on konreid, and anyone who says the pounder is gimped, needs skill REAL bad. There is no single better MAX for defending than the TR ones.

And dont even start with that "Sitting Duck" crap. No MAX can walk fast enough to dodge a deci. TR turns that weakness into a strength. What can VS do? Fly in plain view of Reavers/Phoenix/Strikers/Tanks/etc. WAIT!! We can fly 30 in. into the air inside a base before we hit the roof. Oh no, my bad. You meant that we can fly over base walls to be shreaded by wall turrets phoenix/striker missles.

PS - this isnt a bitch, but more of a request that TR whiners who miss their uber-pounder of launch day to give it up. I think NC got the short end of the MAX stick, not TR.

I'm not sure how you got that I was a TR whiner out of my comment. You're reading way too much into it. I've used MAXes from all 3 empires, and imho, the VS have the best. Yes, the Pounder still kicks ass, but I'd personally rather have the Quasar. It's range, accuracy, and ttk is more powerful than any HA weapon in the game. The pounder is better indoors obviously, not going to argue against that. And I think you're discounting the advantages the jumpjet gives you. It forces defenders to be ready for MAXes coming over the walls, whereas they don't against the other empires.

infinite loop · 2003-11-25, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Rayder

VS maxs have weaker armor than the other empire maxs, in other words, it takes less to kill them.

You don't need to run to avoid a deci, time it right and you can jump over them if they're aimed low enough

The Mag is an in-sight tank. If you cant see it you can shoot it. The other tanks however CAN hit objects taht are behind mountains, walls and whatnot.

Nope, actually all MAXes have 650 armor points, the same for all empires. VS are not weaker. And yes, the arc of other tanks is a very, very *slight* advantage over the mag in some extremely limiting situations. Not enough to say that those tanks are better. I'll take the ability to shoot down reavers anyday over that.

infinite loop · 2003-11-25, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Veteran

Example 1: Surging Standard Armor guy with an Alienware 510023 and 7tb diamond lattice FTL internet connection. To people in-game, he's practically invisible and when he jumps, you'd have to be a mind-reader to use your .1 or so seconds to aim right on him before he opens fire at point-blank from your blind-side.

Example 2: 1.4ghz computer with 64mb graphics card and cable modem, doesn't use Surge and is called a retard and such for not using it, because it's pretty much understood you'd better have it or you're kinda gimpy (ahem or so I've heard). As you are moving along at a very reasonable speed, your opponents don't see you teleporting like mad and get easy beads with whatever weapon they are using, or Surge up to you and splatter you before your client even gets vital information about what's happening to you. You usually see a spinning screen and one or two frames of a guy Surging away from you.

Granted, these are just two out of many possible ways people could encounter Surge on the battlefield, and in both it's clear that Surge is naughty.

But will the devs remove it? Surging is Unsafe at Any Speed for a game that tries to make a fair experience for its players who don't have brand new PCs and broadband. I for one would rather play a little slower and mellower (i.e. the environment that would exist without Surge) so that everyone can get into the game.

Really, I think Surge is fvcking it up for everyone. I use it all the time (go figure) but I'd gladly give it up to possibly double the playerbase. Yes, I honestly think that Surge monkeys intimidate the shit out of n00bs and the teleportation effects are just too crappy looking to encourage by making Surge available.

I'd increase the footspeed of Infiltrator armor by 15%, Standard by 10%, Agile by 5% and kick Surge to the curb. I think people can and would happily get along without it, and people would enjoy the game more with the cheese factor reduced.

I agree that the warping effect needs to be fixed, and it seems like the devs agree. In the latest upcoming development post, they said it was being looked at. Hopefully they can do this w/o removing surge. Unfortunately, many NC cannot happily get along w/o surge. Non-NC like to laugh at us for saying it, but the JH is extremely ineffective w/o surge. If they take out surge, they absolutely have to buff the JH. When I don't have surge yet, and I'm inside a base hallway, I'll get torn to shreds by any other MA or HA weapon before I'm close enough to do any real damage. It just plain sucks past 20m, and the other HA doesn't. Say no to removing surge!

BadAsh · 2003-11-25, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

I agree that the warping effect needs to be fixed, and it seems like the devs agree. In the latest upcoming development post, they said it was being looked at. Hopefully they can do this w/o removing surge. Unfortunately, many NC cannot happily get along w/o surge. Non-NC like to laugh at us for saying it, but the JH is extremely ineffective w/o surge. If they take out surge, they absolutely have to buff the JH. When I don't have surge yet, and I'm inside a base hallway, I'll get torn to shreds by any other MA or HA weapon before I'm close enough to do any real damage. It just plain sucks past 20m, and the other HA doesn't. Say no to removing surge!

Well, to my way if thinking that's just a trade off with the JH. If the target is past 20m they win. If they are within 20m you win.

The MCG is useless at long range and is OK at medium range, not quite even with Sweeper or Gauss/Cycler users at meduim range, but you can hang. At close range it's better than the Sweeper or Gauss but not as powerful as the JH.

Without surge the NC should just get a Rexo and keep a Gauss and a JH ready to go. You will then beat a MGC at long range, have an advantage at medium range, and own at close range. (This is my NC set-up on Markov)

I think you will find similar results against the Lasher, I do.

The NC don't need surge. Personally I hope they leave surge in the game, but just make it so that your weapons have to be holstered to use it.

BadAsh

infinite loop · 2003-11-25, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Well, to my way if thinking that's just a trade off with the JH. If the target is past 20m they win. If they are within 20m you win.

You know, after I said this, I thought about all of my views on balance and trade-offs, and I think I kinda agree. The problem though, is that it's a bigger tradeoff than the potency at close-range makes up for. That's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Without surge the NC should just get a Rexo and keep a Gauss and a JH ready to go. You will then beat a MGC at long range, have an advantage at medium range, and own at close range. (This is my NC set-up on Markov)

Actually I rarely do the agile-surge-jh setup. I really like the versatility that rexo offers, so I'm usually in that, but I still use surge. My setup is either a gauss or JH in slot 2, and a deci in slot 4. I use my gauss outdoors and my JH when I get inside. You have to know your effective ranges for each weapon, and I think I've got it down.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

The NC don't need surge. Personally I hope they leave surge in the game, but just make it so that your weapons have to be holstered to use it.

BadAsh

The problem with the balance argument is that people are only willing to accept small trade-offs to keep the balance, if any at all. Removing surge would make it appear to most that the JH is much less effective at every range besides cqc than the other HA weapons, and it will be deemed unfair. It will go back to the argument that I started, where the poor, poor JH monkey gets owned down a hallway by a lasher. I guess there's no real way to truly balance it, but I think removing surge would just have a horribly negative effect.

Jagd · 2003-11-25, 05:44 PM

If you use the sweeper, infiltration suit, or heavy assault surge will make them 75% more combat effective. Nerf surge and you will lose a lot of players. Even Veteran, crying for the rights of imagined 56k players, still uses it. It is a crucial part of the game, they can't take it away.

Veteran · 2003-11-26, 07:30 AM

Nobody would quit if they nerfed/eradicated Surge. Nobody. People would threaten to, and shout a lot, and generally make a stink that they don't want to play if they have to use skill or focus, but they won't quit. They'll adapt, and they'll enjoy the game all the more for it.

Of course I use it, just like the players used keep-away tactics in basketball until they added the offense clock. Before that, a lot of people said that basketball would die if they forced the offense to deliver the ball within a time-limit. What happened? Basketball flourished. Direct parallel.

TeraHertz · 2003-11-26, 08:01 AM

Surge isnt necsary for the lasher, except out in the open against a jackhammer. For the MCG the TR are better off crouching. As for the jackhammer, it'll make them less efective alot of the time, but they have the cycler. Charging round corners, and into control rooms they're still going to kill anything else out there.

infinite loop · 2003-11-26, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Veteran

Nobody would quit if they nerfed/eradicated Surge. Nobody. People would threaten to, and shout a lot, and generally make a stink that they don't want to play if they have to use skill or focus, but they won't quit. They'll adapt, and they'll enjoy the game all the more for it.

I'll throw out the first threat then. If they nerf surge, I will quit. I rely on it heavily with my JH, and I will not accept losing it. Nerfs frustrate me to no end, and one major direct nerf to me and I think I'm done. I don't want to adapt, I would rather go find something else to do with my time. And why does using surge equate to not using skill or focus? That's kind of a bullshit comment. If this game didn't require me to use skill and focus I wouldn't be playing.

Originally Posted by Veteran

Of course I use it, just like the players used keep-away tactics in basketball until they added the offense clock. Before that, a lot of people said that basketball would die if they forced the offense to deliver the ball within a time-limit. What happened? Basketball flourished. Direct parallel.

Uh are we professional atheletes? I'm not getting paid to play this game, quite the opposite. They should cater to us, and not force us to adapt to unnecessary nerfs and changes. Those basketball players had a large incentive to adapt to the new rules. I don't.