AV weapons - Page 4

Madcow · 2003-12-22, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Doppler

First off if your using phoenix's for counter snipe, your opponents are idiots. It is very easy for an infantryman to dodge an incoming phoenix missle, secondly lets get this away from an empire frest by saying that all AV weapons need some help.

First, the ability to remote detonate the Phoenix negates the ability to 'dodge' the missile. The splash is plenty sufficient to take out softies, or MAXs for that matter.

Second, right you are. The Striker went from being just about right against ground vehicles (but too good against reavers/mossys/MAXs) to being bad against just about everything. The Lancer went from being too good against soft targets (but too difficult against vehicles for the most part) to being weak against just about everything. The Phoenix is a bit too strong against MAXs (and soft targets in my opinion) and is a bit too difficult to hit moving vehicles with (air especially).

I really think they need to reclassify the MAX armor so that it's not in the same pool as vehicle armor. While AV weapons should be effective against MAXs, none should be devastating against MAXs. No AV weapons need to be effective against soft targets. Each AV weapon should be an effective deterrent to some degree to air and ground vehicles. I would think 15+ shots per tank, a handful less accordingly to each of the lesser vehicles. Too much to make it feasible for a single soldier to hold vehicles back themselves, but enough so that multiple coordinated soldiers can quickly do serious damage. The Striker should do the least damage because of it's lock capability (although the lock might need a little more forgiveness), the Lancer should do the most and the Phoenix should be somewhere in between (with a little love in the cornering department to make it a bit easier to hit air targets). If the Phoenix were toned down against MAXs, it would also make sense to finally give it a 2 shot magazine.

SandTrout · 2003-12-23, 03:10 AM

The phoenix does not get 3 shot kills on softies. It takes about 5 to kill a reinforced, and if the missile misses, it is liable to overshoot before it can be remotely detonated.

The striker is great vs Air still, especialy with more than one user. It's anti-vehicular abilities are as questionable as any of the other AV weapons.

The lancer is a fine AV weapon, but I don't think that nerfing its AI capacity, at least as much as it was, was a good decission.

I think that only a slight increase in the AV weapons' damage should be in effect, just enough that it doesn't decrease the TTK on a full armored MAX. Instead, the main buff to AV should be decreaseing the sixe of the ammo boxes to the same as the standard ammo box or increase in the amount each box carries.

Phoenix: change it to 300 damage per round and have each box carry 4~6 rounds.
Stiker: Leave damage the same, shrink ammo box.
Lancer: Increase damage slightly, use standard energy at 15-20 cells per shot.

Rayder · 2003-12-23, 03:28 AM

Bah, one of the Phoenix's only limitations is it's low ammo capacity. It's fine as it is.

Madcow · 2003-12-23, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by SandTrout

Phoenix: change it to 300 damage per round and have each box carry 4~6 rounds.
Stiker: Leave damage the same, shrink ammo box.
Lancer: Increase damage slightly, use standard energy at 15-20 cells per shot.

SandTrout, you do realize this appears more than a little biased towards your empire? The VS idea is a good one, but increase the damage on the Phoenix while leaving the Striker (previously gimped) alone? The Phoenix already does tons more damage than the Striker does. After all that you want Striker users to have to carry less ammo, even though their ammo doesn't do all that much damage? The NC already has (by far) the most popular AV weapon, and you are looking to give it some more love while kicking the TR AV into the dirt a bit more.

Doppler · 2003-12-23, 10:56 AM

Madcow I think your reading him wrong, he wants to shrik the ammo boxs to the size of a noraml box of ammo, not these huge tank shell box's were using now.

Madcow · 2003-12-23, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Doppler

Madcow I think your reading him wrong, he wants to shrik the ammo boxs to the size of a noraml box of ammo, not these huge tank shell box's were using now.

Ahhh, my bad. Thought he wanted to drop the box capacity back down, which is the last thing poor Striker users need right now.

Shrinking the boxes down would allow Striker users to carry an insane amount of ammo, it's an interesting idea. It probably would increase the number of people using it just because it would become a lot more convenient to rexo and have the Striker plus a normal weapon, and be able to carry enough ammo for each without a tremendous amount of effort.

Doppler · 2003-12-23, 11:20 AM

I persoanly think the ammo box lise on AV is ludicrus, they should either carry many more shells or be the size of a normal box of ammo.

Rayder · 2003-12-23, 12:41 PM

The box sizes are ment to make sure no one single person can go out and dominate the field. Just think about it, they would have to change the amount of ammo in the boxes if they were to make them smaller. In a Rexo, you can have as much as up to 72 rounds of thumper or rocklet ammo (using these because the Lancer has the largest ammo size and it's the same as the thumper/rocklet). So, that would be 60 for the Striker, and 36 for the Phoenix. Don't tell me that isn't enough for one person to decimate armor.

LesserShade · 2003-12-23, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Zatrais

Pretty much what most Terran troopers did, including me. Striker aint worth it.
Love my deci, only thing that gives me a chance against the VS MAX hoards hehe.

Yeah same here. I've only been back to the game a few days since i last played during beta and I wasn't aware of a striker nerf until I specced it. Needless to say 24 hours later I respecced for SA. It's not a bad weapon by any means, but it isn't worth the 3 points anymore when you can't single handedly own any reaver or max, not with SA being the same cost and so much more versatile.

Doppler · 2003-12-23, 07:58 PM

Err i am sure that the striker/phoenix rockets are as big or bigger then the lancer ammo, i know they are bigger then rocklet gun ammo, and thumper ammo is the same size as a normal ammo box. Plus that one person is not going to decimate armor, because their damage versus that armor still sucks flaming dick, all were asking for, and I dont think this is unreasable, is for those few cases when were not caught up in the open field and taking a tank/rail shell in the teeth or being run over or what have you, we can take more then 6 shots before having to reload. I mean seriously it takes 6 shots for an ant, which is to my knowledge the lightest armored vehicle in the game, if you have time to get off all 6 shots from one person, there is no one int he vehicle your shooting at.

Rayder · 2003-12-23, 10:42 PM

If you mean the size of the ammo boxes are larger than that of the Lancer, then no. The ANT is not the lightest armored vehicle in the game. That would be either the Basilisk or the Wraith.