The NCO and the Officer... - Page 4

Cauldron Borne · 2004-07-08, 12:20 AM

Hmm.... i see Ducimus. I'm just used to thinking on a different plain at the moment. I get what you are saying though.

Ducimus · 2004-07-08, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

O3 is some asshole that people listen to because they have to (if they're O2/O1, warrant or enlisted)... a captain is someone they listen to because he/she fuckin ROCKS.

The same with the difference in a Sergeant and an E5. An E5 is some fartknocking windbag who got the position by mesmerizing crap in a green book and reciting pretty poetry to the board. A sergeant EARNED those stripes.

I hate TOCs. Brigade TOCs for maneuver units are generally targets for artillery. I felt sorry for our MI cell that had to colocate with them, until I realized they deserved it for being control-freaks in areas they had no knowledge of (like usage of MI collection assets). Whenever we had some dumbass LT that tried to make our Ops center colocate there as well, we had to explain how it "really" worked. That's where we find out if he's an O1 or a Lieutenant...

EDIT:
crap, just saw Ducimus'ss'e'es's answer, nevermind.

Damn, guess i gave out the answer too quick.
People listen to an O-3 because they HAVE to.
People listen to the Captain because they WANT to.

Firefly was spot on, just in more words than what i wrote.

This is a difference you pick up pretty quick in the service, not to mention the "captain america" types.. *PUKES*

Theres an abject lesson you can take from this that applies to planetside.

People don't listen to a Command rank whatever because they have to.
They listen because they want to.

So that kinda narrows your options down on what you have to be while trying to lead in PS doesn't it?

Firefly · 2004-07-08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Damn, guess i gave out the answer too quick.
People listen to an O-3 because they HAVE to.
People listen to the Captain because they WANT to.

I generally quote as I go, then cut/paste and move on down the line to the next quote. I saw your question but didn't see that you answered on the next page until I got done with my quote-and-peck.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Theres an abject lesson you can take from this that applies to planetside.

People don't listen to a Command rank whatever because they have to.
They listen because they want to.

So that kinda narrows your options down on what you have to be while trying to lead in PS doesn't it?

That's what I've been saying every time some dumbfuck like TriggerChaoz or Drennan screams over /global about how crappy TR are and how they never listen. This isn't the military - I don't have to obey orders and I can curse a "superior officer" out without worrying about an Article 15 or one of the more serious UCMJ articles. If you want me and my troops to listen, don't me a Johnny Ramrod and then try to cover up your bullshit calls by insulting us.

Then again, most CR5s are nothing more than Zerg Traffic Directors, they point the cannon fodder in the right direction. They think that's leadership, they think calling a primary and secondary is "commanding", and that somehow entitles them to our respect. Let's face it - some of the morons on the ground with the low BR and low CR know more about leading than some of the sissies that pulled Sanctuary Pick-Up Squad for two months over summer vacation. Add to that the new breed of CRs that saw the collossal fuck-ups like ButtcutPsycho and Smiley777 think they're different, but they don't know how to play the game, and try to go it alone contrary to established, functioning tactics... and we're basically screwed.

Ducimus · 2004-07-08, 01:42 PM

>>, they point the cannon fodder in the right direction. They think that's leadership, they think calling a primary and secondary is "commanding", and that somehow entitles them to our respect.
<<

There is a reason why i never even bothered with getting CR 1. Thats one of them. I just didnt want to deal with it. Instead i tried to inspire or otherwise point folks i worked with iin the right direction. Its a game, and as a game i find it more fun to follow a good leader then to try and be one.

I think more and more about coming back to PS every day, but i seriously don't think im going to worry about how the TR on Markov (where i played) conducts itself, it has been, and always will be a clusterfuck. Infact, TR on Markov is the postershild of what is a clustefuck when last i played. Too many opposing personaltiies that dont want to play ball with each other. Its always the same shit, i think id just pick me a job to do, do it, and not worry about anything else.

I have harboered the idea.. or rather concept of a dedicated Combat Engineering unit (which is what i was in RL for 5 active and 2 reserve), but given the nature of the personatlies that play the game, i dont think many people would be hot on the idea. I do know this though, in RL, if CE don't work, nothing works. its a support element you can't do without, but how RL transcribes into practice in PS in that reguard is a whole nother story.

As leadership goes between what an O1 is verses a 2nd LT, and NCO and officer, most people won't get it or practice it.. its not the military. Acutally its a collection of FPS clans that "play" military, but are infact, not. Alot of people don't understand that attitudes are contagious, and a bad one needs to be nipped in the budd before it undermines everyones moral, or even one asshat CR5 can cause a stigma that will forever tarnish the image and reputation of his peers. *shrug* you can lead a horse to water, but you can't get him to drink.

Toimu · 2004-07-08, 04:07 PM

I have this SFC generator mechanic as a 1st SGT that comes up with the dumbest crap (My unit is a FSB). He told me the other day, I cannot walk 20 feet to the showers from my connex wearing DCUs without my gear, but I can wear PTs to the showers without my gear! WTF! We aren't in garrison, we are down range! We also have formations... great idea for a base that gets MORTARED about 2-3 times a week!

And when it comes to brand new LTs vs SGTs, I always say, "There are over paid Privets, and there are under paid LTs."

Firefly · 2004-07-08, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Toimu

I have this SFC generator mechanic as a 1st SGT that comes up with the dumbest crap (My unit is a FSB). He told me the other day, I cannot walk 20 feet to the showers from my connex wearing DCUs without my gear, but I can wear PTs to the showers without my gear! WTF! We aren't in garrison, we are down range!

Been in-zone a few times, I know how you feel. In Afghanistan we had some asshat REMF that said all the spooky types had to shave and get haircuts and wear proper military uniform. Not only was that against our SOP and standing orders, but it was also a great way to identify us as Americans - one of the only military forces that shaves its troops. It also made us appear to be sissy bitches to the locals, where having a beard was the ultimate expression of manhood. We argued it was local-area orders. He said, "The regs say this."

So here's what we did. We started saluting in down-range "garrison". The guy was red-faced apoplectic with rage. "SOLDIER! Do not salute me in a combat zone!!"

Our CO's reply? "But sir... the regs say this."

Ducimus · 2004-07-08, 05:06 PM

Rank has always had little to do with wisdom or common sense.

edit: And firefly describes what i call a "captain america" type. I'll bet he puffs his chest out too.

Firefly · 2004-07-08, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ducimus

edit: And firefly describes what i call a "captain america" type. I'll bet he puffs his chest out too.

Nah this guy was a slouchy kinda suck-in-my-fat-general's-chest guy. We used to do skits during off-duty, and we'd suck in our guts, do the Hulk Hogan arm thing where you curl your arms like an upside-down U, and swagger around like John Wayne going, "Shine those desert boots, soldier! Press that BDU floppy hat! Blacken that desert rank, son!"

Cauldron Borne · 2004-07-08, 05:53 PM

CE in PS > anything anyone else can come up with. My first few weeks i had: CE...that was it. Not even MA. Just CE. I got 100+ kills those few weeks. All CE. boomers, mines, spits. you name it. So yeah. CE plays a part in PS.

AND i can't join in on the presant topic because I am not in the military....yet. I have the rank of 2nd Leutenant in a JROTC. But that's it for now. Hoping I can get into a Military college (West Point. I apply next spring). Then I can talk soldier with ya'll

Ducimus · 2004-07-08, 06:05 PM

Keep in mind that as a cadet, you learn how the military is supposed to be.

Later on you'll learn how it really is.

Be ready to adjust when the day comes.

Cauldron Borne · 2004-07-08, 06:08 PM

*shudder*

Ducimus · 2004-07-08, 06:27 PM

If your serious about being an officer as a career.

Don't be REMF
Don't be a LIFER. (Lazy Inefficent Fucker Expecting Retirement)
Try not to do stupid shit.

Use the experience of your NCO's to your advantage. Ultimatly if a job is done or not, is on your head, but its your NCO's that will have a better idea on how to do it. Think of them as your advisory council. Respect the experience they have to offer. Never place yourself on a pedistal if you want their respect. Be willing to learn, and i'll bet they'll respect you for it.

If you want the repect if your men, be part of the team, but respect the experience and specalties of your troops. Your rank and responsiblity should not put you above the job at hand. If you can be one of the guys, and At the same time, maintain that officer image, you'll make a fine one.

I was CE, and we had some of the finest field officers. They wouldnt just stand there with their hands on their hips. They'd take their shirt off and get in the work with us. Either raking concrete like any other trooper, or at the bottom of a ladder or lift asking us what we needed, or how he could help in such a way that suggested respect for our job knowledge and willingness to help. Thats the type officer men will want to follow. At least thats how it was in my unit.

Toimu · 2004-07-08, 07:15 PM

Most of the Officers in my unit won't do a damn thing, so of course they don't know a damn thing. Half- 75% of the NCOs are the same way also. And most of the girls (soldier/NCO/officer) are just sluts, and expect that to mean they should get rank without doing anything. That is why I like graveyard TOC work. I see no one, and have little to do. I'm at work right now

Ducimus · 2004-07-08, 09:45 PM

Ya thats a reality there...

How "it is" varies from unit to unit, branch to branch. Sometimes just the right mixture of the wrong things will be so bad, that you'll go into your orderly room, and put yourself down for world wide remote.... ANYTHING to PCS/PCA out of that particular unit.

I did that once, i ended up in Korea. lol, but at least i got out of that chickenshit backbiting REMF LIFER unit, and into a high speed low drag supercharged unit with a real mission that took care of its own like family.

Cauldron Borne · 2004-07-09, 05:49 PM

um....ok.

I want to be in the military, so I guess I need to learn what a REMF means...

I want to guess Real Evil Mudda Fucka....am I close?