Killstreaks in PS2? - Page 4

Spark · 2011-07-09, 09:21 AM

After watching the Q&A I got the impression that killstreaks weren't something that splashed flashing text on your screen, rather something that subtly increased your XP gain. That's an understandable reward considering the player did something special either by luck or by skill. I'm not a fan of quick-knifing though, especially if people are opting to rush you in close/medium combat rather than use cover effectively while shooting.

I don't know if this makes much sense, but PS1 to me seemed like an MMO (for lack of a better word) reworked into an FPS. PS2 is looking to be a modern FPS worked into an MMO. Obviously with PS2 we'll be seeing more shooter conventions, but whether that's a good or bad thing I have no idea.

BorisBlade · 2011-07-09, 09:36 AM

Faster TTK's will suck. When you have 1000 people, dieing fast like you do in the awful CoD games just means you spend all your time respawning. You have no need for medics and no need for engineers to repair armor, nor does the various armor types really have much impact. This guy is clearly a CoD fanboy and needs to stop tryin to copy that awful game. If i want CoD i will play CoD. I play PS cause its not at all like CoD.

And no to the knife. not sure what retard thought that instant death knifing makes sense. Just runnin around and insta-gibbin every person you get in melee range of, which is easy now with sprint, is just flat out terribad gameplay and not even remotely realistic. Leave knives like PS1. Where it takes a good 3 hits or so and the animation is slow enough that any person with a brain would use a gun not a knife, cloakers can use em for stealth kills but soldiers should not have much reason to use em. You dont see our military soldiers knifing insurgents, cause its stupid, doesnt take em out like a gun would, and will most likely get you killed. So keep it halfway realistic, leave the knives out of the gun fight.

And am i the only one who doesnt like that Higby guy? I'm not exactly a fan of his ideas on what PS should be either. Tryin to turn it into a CoD MMO is a terrible idea. CoD plays terribly. And even more so in a persistant large scale game. Although the beta tests will quickly show this out if they keep doin this crap.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-09, 09:41 AM

Is that the guy who does 90% of the talking? If so, he looks, acts, and talks almost exactly like my boss, except skinnier and longer hair. Its quite freaky.

Highwind · 2011-07-09, 10:40 AM

With regards to "quick knifing", the way I imagine it might work well for everyone.

In PS you had to equip your knife, there was an upfront equip time before you could attack with it (pulling it out) and extra time to equip is effectively added if you need to put away your current weapon (often the case). This upfront equip time ruins many of the scenarios where a non-stealth MIGHT ever knife someone, like for example in lieu of reloading to finish a hurt target they were sparring with in a hallway. To many the knife didn't exist in Planetside for all intensive purposes, and that isn't really fair the potential that it could bring to the table if balanced right.

It is important to note that the Knife in PS-one had two modes, one hit harder than the other (the weaker, the slash, and the harder, the stab)

If in Planetside 2 the goal was to just get the knife some more play time the "quick knife" would do that, but it should be balanced around the the weaker of the two knife attacks, the slash. Not that is has to be a slash (could be a rifle butt hit, or whatever) but it should be a weaker melee attack then for example taking the time to SWITCH to your real full powered knife, which I assume you would also have and would nearer to a 2-3 hit kill.

(For examples we are using the Planetside 100 health scale, and zero armor)

With "quick knifing" done this way you effectively you give every "gun" the option do a light melee attack that might do say 15-20 health of damage (less with armor etc) but wouldn't have any equip time worth noting, you would just swing at a fairly fast speed right while having your gun equiped. To balance the use of that rapid fast attack put a longer "reload" on the back end of that fast attack so that it can't be spammed more then once or used for more then a finisher really, while at the same time limiting slightly the speed at which the user can get back to their main weapon more or less forcing a re-equip animation.

Other posters are right, we should be using our guns, but in unique places I can see where a "fast" light attack might "out skill" someone you choose to just reload, where you put your life on the line to end it then and there with a quick hit, that sounds like it could be both fun and fair.

Thoughts on that perspective?

2coolforu · 2011-07-09, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I understand the reason and the intent behind your post, but then there's the part of me that wore an Army uniform and deployed downrange - that part has a hard time accepting some alternate reality when it comes to warfare. Whilst a majority of this is true (and brought on by a video game rant), in close quarters you don't get the option to say "Hmm, I think I'll shoot this guy who's closed in on me". If he's THAT close to you then A) you've fucked up and B) you go for whatever is at hand. Preferably, yes, that would be your bullet-shooting weapon. But if they're inside your reach you're fucked. You can't bring that to bear without stepping back. So you go for something else - a knife. Or maybe your sidearm. The reason why we still have bayonets is because A) it's intimidating, B) when you run dry you have a weapon, and C) it functions as a combat knife for when someone gets inside your engagement area.

I hope they have someone on their team that knows weapons and isn't a complete gamer dipshit. Knives are not insta-kill weapons. Like, hardly ever. A knife wound can kill you quickly if you bleed out, but that's about it. Everything else is slow as compared to a bullet to the face. That horse shit in the movies about sneaking up on someone and cutting their throat and it being quiet and quick? Total bullshit. It's noisy, it's messy, and it's not as quick as they make it seem. So I hope they don't make knives an insta-gib option like CutterJohn mentioned regarding BadGame 2.

I've had to deal with someone wielding a knife, I have never had to deal with someone wielding a gun. Yes knives are combat weapons but I mean, a proper bayonet charge hasn't been done since the Falklands war and that was against shittily trained Argentinian teenagers who just wanted to surrender, the last time there was any wide use of bayonets was in the world wars and the bayonet was a tool invented because single shot muskets sucked ass, now with every infantryman having semi and automatic rifles as standard they just aren't used.

It takes such a great deal of training to use a knife in any way, and the method they are used in games is just laughable, half the time you make some wild slash that probably wouldn't even cut through some shitty clothes. Not to mention the fact that EVERYONE in Planetside is wearing futuristic space armor made of exotic alloys I just don't see any place for a CoD style knife. Even modern body armor is basically knife proof, Planetside sort of subverted this by having knives with advanced characteristics (force-knives, magnetic fields etc) to try and explain how they could kill you, even then it took bionic enhancements to your muscle to even kill someone in two hits - that was good and it made sense however an instant kill knife does not fit into a world that has invisible men and future armor. What it boils down to is this, guns can be made more advanced, they can have SABOT ammunition or use magnetic powering or a better chemical propellent, a knife relies on a human and humans have a limit to how strong they can get - that limit is a result of being human and using muscles, ATP and having a skeleton made of a material with a set strength.

The US army recently discontinued bayonet training, yes a knife is a good thing to have 'Just in case', however it is 'Just in case'. It's a total last resort. Having knives on frontline infantry troops as a weapon that is actually effective is ridiculous, the situation in which a knife would actually be useful just doesn't arise in a videogame.

Elude · 2011-07-09, 12:25 PM

Remove the knife, I just wanna beat someone over the head a couple times with the butt of my weapon.

Firefly · 2011-07-09, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

I've had to deal with someone wielding a knife, I have never had to deal with someone wielding a gun. Yes knives are combat weapons but I mean, a proper bayonet charge hasn't been done since the Falklands war and that was against shittily trained Argentinian teenagers who just wanted to surrender, the last time there was any wide use of bayonets was in the world wars and the bayonet was a tool invented because single shot muskets sucked ass, now with every infantryman having semi and automatic rifles as standard they just aren't used.

It takes such a great deal of training to use a knife in any way, and the method they are used in games is just laughable, half the time you make some wild slash that probably wouldn't even cut through some shitty clothes. Not to mention the fact that EVERYONE in Planetside is wearing futuristic space armor made of exotic alloys I just don't see any place for a CoD style knife. Even modern body armor is basically knife proof, Planetside sort of subverted this by having knives with advanced characteristics (force-knives, magnetic fields etc) to try and explain how they could kill you, even then it took bionic enhancements to your muscle to even kill someone in two hits - that was good and it made sense however an instant kill knife does not fit into a world that has invisible men and future armor. What it boils down to is this, guns can be made more advanced, they can have SABOT ammunition or use magnetic powering or a better chemical propellent, a knife relies on a human and humans have a limit to how strong they can get - that limit is a result of being human and using muscles, ATP and having a skeleton made of a material with a set strength.

The US army recently discontinued bayonet training, yes a knife is a good thing to have 'Just in case', however it is 'Just in case'. It's a total last resort. Having knives on frontline infantry troops as a weapon that is actually effective is ridiculous, the situation in which a knife would actually be useful just doesn't arise in a videogame.

I wasn't talking about a bayonet charge, I was talking about having the bayonet.

The Marine Corps at least got it right as a whole and came up with the kabar, which is one of the knives I took overseas (thanks Dad). Practically nobody fixes bayonets unless it's for some ceremony. But you still take it with you and wear it on your gear. Knives have their function, that function actually being a tool. In a video game, the only time anyone should be using a knife is as an infiltrator. Hollywood that shit up, unless you're going for realism (in which case you should also refrain from using silencers because Hollywood got that wrong, too).

And just a minor correction: the US Army discontinued bayonet drills/training in BCT/AIT. A number of infantry units still train it because of its inherent physical and martial value, as well as the fact that bayonet training isn't just using a bayonet, but using your weapon as a melee object.

Sirisian · 2011-07-09, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by LordReaver

Umm.. The average player has a 1/1 ratio. Skill has nothing to do with it, it's math. Someone must die for every kill. When you factor in death by tree, and other non kill deaths, you return an average player ratio of less than 1/1. In other words, more than half the people in the game die more often than get kills.

You missed the point of what I said. I acknowledged the average and said in order to bias the game toward that average then a slower TTK forces that because of reaload times. It's much easier to kill three people in a row if you're not reloading because the new TTK might be so much faster.

I brought this up because I had friends that tried to get into this game and aren't that great. It's very discouraging for beginners when they die 100 times without a kill. A faster TTK gives a huge advantage toward skilled player essentially allowing for kill streaks to happen. Take the current Planetside. Really good players might only be getting a 20/1 k/d whereas with the new system I fear that number might explode.

Bags · 2011-07-09, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

You missed the point of what I said. I acknowledged the average and said in order to bias the game toward that average then a slower TTK forces that because of reaload times. It's much easier to kill three people in a row if you're not reloading because the new TTK might be so much faster.

I brought this up because I had friends that tried to get into this game and aren't that great. It's very discouraging for beginners when they die 100 times without a kill. A faster TTK gives a huge advantage toward skilled player essentially allowing for kill streaks to happen. Take the current Planetside. Really good players might only be getting a 20/1 k/d whereas with the new system I fear that number might explode.

Most of the time when you see insane KDs like 60 / 2 and 74 / 1 they were gotten inside of a vehicle.