assassinations

[Talek Krell]

I've always wanted to see an "asassination" system where the guy can turn it around and overpower the person ambushing him (or rolling around on the floor behind him, whatever). Other than that, I vote "No".

[Azren]

This sure would make cloakers much-much more common.

The "one button knife" nonsence is not set in stone yet, the devs still debating that one (I hope it will not be implemented)

[exLupo]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up TF2's Spy. A lot of stuff has been brought up that's a concern in TF2 or is answered by their system.

Do backstabs draw people to the Spy? Yes, far too many. It's a class that you want no more than 1 in 6 players on your team to play, usually only one per server. On random pub servers (not based around a specific community) you get more than you need and it sucks. It's like dropping a gal full of infils into a hot courtyard. DL flicks, they all die and the defenders have a good laugh. That being said, the "people will be attracted" factor is heavily tempered by how difficult the Spy is to play. It's got a really high skill floor. This drives most people away so there's a high turnover rate and the game doesn't end up as Knives Online.

The argument that "it's too easy to ohk with a knife" only applies when people aren't paying attention. In PS1, infils aren't invisible, the knife makes noise and to actually get knife kills you need the melee implant which will suck out stamina necessary to keep SS running. In a hot fight, infils get destroyed by crossfire. It's like the Spy trying to cross a chokepoint with standard invisibility. It's like trying to at powerball. In any situation where an infil can actually get up on a target, it's fairly quiet. The second you make any suspicious noise, DL flicks and you die.

If this does not happen, you're attacking inexperienced players. Normally I am horribly averse to the "if you can do this, they suck" argument but it's proven time and time again in TF2. Go to a veteran server and Spy life is hard, sometimes impossible. Go to a Valve public server and you can go on mad backstab sprees because players haven't yet learned which noises and behaviors to key on to.

This paranoia alone makes ohk knife attacks extremely difficult and if you aren't hitting priority targets, a complete waste of time. In PS, there's no medic with an uber that you -need- to kill or engineer camping his nest to take out. It's just a bunch of generic dudes, all with the same ability to revive and repair. You could stab one body and then get slaughtered, only to have your target revived seconds later. If you kill lone targets then grats, you've killed one of a hundred generic troops.

tl;dr: What I'm really saying is that in an environment where backstabs are a tool of an extremely vulnerable unit, it is balanced. However, in a game like PS1, backstabs accomplish nothing meaningful. You'll have greater impact with a proper gun. Stealthed assassins have no point.

Giving crazy assassinations to everyone is terrible. The best implementation I've seen, by feel and risk, was in BFBC2 and with BF3 even DICE is moving away from that system to something better.

[Elude]

Lets just remove the whole knife concept and add weapon bashing instead or remove melee entirely, and add infinite sidearm ammo lol.

[Hamma]

Well said exLupo

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by exLupo

I'm surprised nobody has brought up TF2's Spy. A lot of stuff has been brought up that's a concern in TF2 or is answered by their system.

Do backstabs draw people to the Spy? Yes, far too many. It's a class that you want no more than 1 in 6 players on your team to play, usually only one per server. On random pub servers (not based around a specific community) you get more than you need and it sucks. It's like dropping a gal full of infils into a hot courtyard. DL flicks, they all die and the defenders have a good laugh. That being said, the "people will be attracted" factor is heavily tempered by how difficult the Spy is to play. It's got a really high skill floor. This drives most people away so there's a high turnover rate and the game doesn't end up as Knives Online.

The argument that "it's too easy to ohk with a knife" only applies when people aren't paying attention. In PS1, infils aren't invisible, the knife makes noise and to actually get knife kills you need the melee implant which will suck out stamina necessary to keep SS running. In a hot fight, infils get destroyed by crossfire. It's like the Spy trying to cross a chokepoint with standard invisibility. It's like trying to at powerball. In any situation where an infil can actually get up on a target, it's fairly quiet. The second you make any suspicious noise, DL flicks and you die.

If this does not happen, you're attacking inexperienced players. Normally I am horribly averse to the "if you can do this, they suck" argument but it's proven time and time again in TF2. Go to a veteran server and Spy life is hard, sometimes impossible. Go to a Valve public server and you can go on mad backstab sprees because players haven't yet learned which noises and behaviors to key on to.

This paranoia alone makes ohk knife attacks extremely difficult and if you aren't hitting priority targets, a complete waste of time. In PS, there's no medic with an uber that you -need- to kill or engineer camping his nest to take out. It's just a bunch of generic dudes, all with the same ability to revive and repair. You could stab one body and then get slaughtered, only to have your target revived seconds later. If you kill lone targets then grats, you've killed one of a hundred generic troops.

tl;dr: What I'm really saying is that in an environment where backstabs are a tool of an extremely vulnerable unit, it is balanced. However, in a game like PS1, backstabs accomplish nothing meaningful. You'll have greater impact with a proper gun. Stealthed assassins have no point.

Giving crazy assassinations to everyone is terrible. The best implementation I've seen, by feel and risk, was in BFBC2 and with BF3 even DICE is moving away from that system to something better.

So in other words, don't allow it because it sucks and people who don't realize it sucks will try to do it?

Shouldn't be much of an issue then. Its not my fault, or yours, if people try to do dumb things, and if they want to try, go for it.

[Geist]

As much as I hate insta-kill knifing, I figure an animation for when you get the killing blow when hitting someone with a knife would work out rather nicely.


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- Sent from my iPhone, Bitch!

[Logit]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

I've always wanted to see an "asassination" system where the guy can turn it around and overpower the person ambushing him (or rolling around on the floor behind him, whatever). Other than that, I vote "No".

I believe this is called gay porn.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Evilmp

I don't like losing control of my character. If someone walks up behind me, and begins some dumb knife-kill-extreme-combo animation, I'd be pretty pissed that I couldn't defend myself.

You're already dead. The point of the animation is to prevent the knifer from doing it over and over and over along a line of enemies facing away from him.

This game should not contain easy instant-win buttons.

Like HA vs a cloaker?

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by Logit

I believe this is called gay porn.

Maybe asassinations would be acceptable if the game played some Barry White when you started one? >.>

[cashfoyogash]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

You're already dead. The point of the animation is to prevent the knifer from doing it over and over and over along a line of enemies facing away from him.



Like HA vs a cloaker?

the other point of the animation is also so the assassin is vulnerable to being shot/ killed while executing the victim. Which if killing the assassin is fast enough the person is also saved from being killed. Which is how halo does it. The button is also required to be held down, if not it results in just a smash to the back of the head. In halo it is an insta kill regardless if you assassinate them or "beat them down".

If this were in PS2 I would not have a hit to the back be a insta kill but maybe worth more damage than a regular knife attack. Also while the animation is going on the assassin should be completely vulnerable but if he lets go of the button before the attack is done then it is not an insta kill just a knock to the back of the head. The animations should be just a bit longer than halos to promote more saving of soldiers lives. Another thing there should be a percent for the assassination to fail, like bailing out of an aircraft in PS1. The resulting animation could maybe end up facing the two players toward each other as well. That way if you were a rexo HA player and the assassin who was a cloaker were faced toward each other guns out you could easily dispatch him since the assassin would always have a knife verses whatever the other player had. It may also prevent alot of people going out and camping specifically to assassinate people. Instead it might be used more as a tool for cloakers to silently dispatch someone while sneaking into enemy territory and also save on using all their ammo. Maybe the percent of success should be better for heavier armor types to lower armor types or vice versa.

[Valdae]

I dont like seeing the word insta-kill. Assassinations would inevitably last a few second, and it certainly shouldn't compare to the TF2 Spy Knife!

Anyone played Hitman? Remember the knife assassinations from Blood Money?

I think that's more how we "pro-assassination" guys think it should be like..

[CutterJohn]

Yeah, hitman did it good. They were most definitely not instant kills, just guaranteed kills, if you weren't dropped first.

Seriously though.. A ridge full of wannabe sniper noobs with their one hit headshots being constantly harassed by wannabe ninjas. Hilarity!

[Valdae]

Its too brutal for PS i guess, but skip to 2 mins 25 seconds to get a good idea of what we're referencing from hitman. Knife kill looks cool, is fun to perform, but leaves you vulnerable.

[Sovereign]

Perhaps in hindsight it would be best if there could be a short windowed opportunity for the prey to counter the attempted assassination?

If the defendent has some kind of hyper reflex stimulant implant.