London Riots - Page 4

Firejack · 2011-08-11, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Manitou

Great article/opinion piece on this over at BlackFive.net - check it out:

"Progeny of the Welfare State"

A quote from the piece: "If you train an entire cohort of society to believe that the government doesn't just offer a safety net but a way of life, well you get this- gangs of scum who will take what they want if the free lunch stops showing up."

As an Englishman that is probably one of the most insulting articles I've ever seen online. The author has made some presumptions and is using the unrest to push his own agenda. He has obviously never been this this country or understands the people or our beliefs.

The link he makes between our welfare system and the rioters is simply a lie. The vast majority of those people in the riots were young kids of all backgrounds. Sure some of them are from families receiving some sort of financial support. However if you look again, there are just as many well dressed, healthy youngsters carrying around their iPods and Smartphones. You can't for one moment think there is a link between a welfare system and the riots.

The distraction these kids caused the police allowed criminal gangs to take advantage of the disorder to loot.
This was the main problem for the police. While they were busy trying to collar the kids on bikes, crimes were being committed in large numbers.

The final group of people were the opportunists. There were large numbers of these individuals who took advantage of the situation. The criminal gangs had left with all they could carry so these passers-by thought they could help themselves while the police were busy elsewhere.
These individuals were not poor people being kept in clean clothes by the government. They were Students, Healthcare workers, and other individuals taking advantage of the disorder to commit crimes for nothing other than their own greed. It has nothing to do social problems in this country and it certainly has nothing to do with our welfare system.

I really hate the way this story has been reported in the media. Well hyped out of all proportion. You'd think every street was burning and the Queen had left the country to seek refuge in Australia.

I was in my local City Centre yesterday and there were 4 police having their photo's taken with tourists. That is a much more typical sight then the scenes of chaos being pushed around by the media, hinting that this behaviour is the normal way people behave here.

The hard line the British Police take towards crime of any sort, but especially gun crime, mean we are one of the safest modern societies in the world. The Police Service here is respected worldwide for the way it handles crimes and the professionalism and heroism each Officer displays on the streets.
Over 1 million British people signed up on Facebook to support the Police as soon as any sort criticism was pointed at them. They truly are phenomenal.
Can you name any other Police Service anywhere in the world that dispersed these riots without a single gun being fired? Think about that for a moment. There have been no serious injuries to the police or the rioters, the hospitals aren't pack with wounded, the streets aren't covered in blood. Would such widespread disorder have had such a positive outcome anywhere else. I really doubt it.

Sure our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has some improvements to make to our society. We are a lot closer then that Blackfive article suggests and the tens of thousands of volunteers who turned up to clean the streets in they own time proves that point.

Just because you need a helping hand once in awhile doesn't make you some sort of underclass and it especially doesn't make you a criminal.

Tigersmith · 2011-08-11, 12:09 PM

I wonder when all of this will stop. This to be honest is just unreal. Its not a 3rd world country god

Firejack · 2011-08-11, 12:29 PM

Apart from a few isolated incidents, it has already ended. A combination of an increase to the number of police on the streets surrounding the hotspots. Plus that ever reliable British rain has put an end to the nonsense.

Rokazulu · 2011-08-11, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Valdae

Maybe someone should come and smash your community to pieces, beat up you and your friends, and kill the people standing up against them. I'm sure you'd feel fantastic then.

Yeah we already got a name for those people.

THE POLICE!

Surge72 · 2011-08-11, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rokazulu

Yeah we already got a name for those people.

THE POLICE!

Wow, you're a prick.

Sorry I can't put any other point across. I'm tired and going to bed. I just needed to voice my low opinion of you.

Hamma · 2011-08-11, 05:45 PM

Fail.. stop trolling

Vancha · 2011-08-11, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Firejack

As an Englishman that is probably one of the most insulting articles I've ever seen online.

It's also satirical, hence my laughing at it before.

I thought it was serious to start with as well, but as I kept reading I realized it was too stupid to be real.

Hamma · 2011-08-11, 06:25 PM

It's not satirical at all, there's plenty of people who don't want to pay for free handouts and want the govt to stay out of personal lives.

Manitou · 2011-08-11, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Vancha

It's also satirical, hence my laughing at it before.

I thought it was serious to start with as well, but as I kept reading I realized it was too stupid to be real.

It isn't satire. These guys are serious, and from a multicultural background. Most are military or ex-military (US) and have a FIRM grip of the geopolitical scene. Some are democrat, some are republican, some are independent.

To label the article as satire simply because you don't like the truth behind it is, in my opinion, a cop-out. Point out the weaknesses in his argument, critique the points he makes.

Vancha · 2011-08-11, 09:12 PM

No no no, it's satire in the same way Colbert parodies a republican.

See, he's called "Uncle Jimbo" for starters, and he talks as if the riots are going on in America, referencing American taxes, American politics and American health programs as if they're the cause of the riots...All the while throwing in liberal/left/social/democrat every few words as if he's still living the cold war.

The posts by Blackfive/Longtabsigo look fairly genuine, but I'm pretty sure Jimbo's a parody, like Fox News.

Hamma · 2011-08-11, 09:35 PM

Negative.. :P

Firefly · 2011-08-12, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rokazulu

Yeah we already got a name for those people.

THE POLICE!

That's funny. In my neighborhood the police only beat the shit out of people who resist, brandish a weapon, or otherwise act like a fucking cunt. My former housemate was a cop, and we have multiple cops living in my complex and all of them are good friends. More importantly good people.

Sorry that your experiences with the police have been less than stellar. However, I'd say your completely shitty attitude has something to do with it. Most cops put incredible distance between themselves and those exceedingly rare individuals who join the police because they're tired of being bullied. In fact I daresay that about all of the LEOs that I know, in addition to tolerating your sort of "Fuck the corporate world!" attitude, gladly will still put their life on the line to stop someone from terrorizing you.

In spite of the fact that cunts who hassle them don't fucking deserve it.

Valdae · 2011-08-12, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

That's funny. In my neighborhood the police only beat the shit out of people who resist, brandish a weapon, or otherwise act like a fucking cunt. My former housemate was a cop, and we have multiple cops living in my complex and all of them are good friends. More importantly good people.

Sorry that your experiences with the police have been less than stellar. However, I'd say your completely shitty attitude has something to do with it. Most cops put incredible distance between themselves and those exceedingly rare individuals who join the police because they're tired of being bullied. In fact I daresay that about all of the LEOs that I know, in addition to tolerating your sort of "Fuck the corporate world!" attitude, gladly will still put their life on the line to stop someone from terrorizing you.

In spite of the fact that cunts who hassle them don't fucking deserve it.

All well said but he doesn't deserve a response. The majority of UK police have acted heroically, and I think if these riots were happening in the US then I would expect much of the same.

'Anarchy rules!' and 'fuck the police!' are stereotypical statements of the kind of people causing this riot in the first place.

With regards to the article posted before, these riots aren't just a result of the welfare system (which has done far more good than bad), but for a wide variety of political/social/economic/idiotic factors.

I mean check out this article, her motivation obviously wasn't welfare based. http://m.mirror.co.uk/article?a=m4%3A23336687

Hezzy · 2011-08-12, 06:12 AM

Back from work. No widespread disorder, but a lot of drunk idiots. Made two arrests and a lot of robust early interventions (aka telling them to go home haha). Pulled a 12 hour shift and now I can barely feel my legs

Firefly · 2011-08-12, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by -Hezzy-

Made two arrests and a lot of robust early interventions (aka telling them to go home haha).

LOL... robust intervention. "STOP! OR I'LL SAY STOP AGAIN!"