What do you want to see in stealth? - Page 4

Baneblade · 2011-12-12, 04:46 PM

I don't think we even need an actual counter to cloakers. As long as they aren't overpowered.

CutterJohn · 2011-12-12, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Regarding the Darklight ideas. I was quite happy with the way it worked in PS1.

I would be against making it a rifle attachment for a couple of reasons.

One, as an implant you're generally sacrificing having some other real cool ability by having Darklight, and it's a lot easier to switch a load out than it is to change an implant. Thus, meaning implants result in less people using Darklight than weapon attachments.

I'd use that as an argument for why it shouldn't be an implant. You can switch to cloaker without visiting the implant station. Why should the cloaking detection require the visit as well?

Both should require implants, or neither.

If you're suddenly being pestered by aircraft, you go to the terminal and get AA. There is no AA implant. If you're being pestered by tanks, you get AV. Again, no AV implant. What makes cloaking special?

Also, if its a handheld gizmo, you'd be giving up your weapon, and the cloaker would see you looking for him. If its a weapon attachment, you'd be giving up the ability to carry certain weapons, and you'd be using up your attachment slot on something that may not be useful.

ShockNC · 2011-12-12, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Both should require implants, or neither.

Since PS2 isn't going to have stamina, i would be very interested if they have implants at all.

Galapogos · 2011-12-12, 05:25 PM

Counters should either level the playing field or give a slight advantage, it shouldn't be spam dl > see infil > win. I like the idea of dl being more like a flashlight with a narrow, and I wouldn't mind it being a weapon attachmet as long infils can somehow see the cone if its in their fov.

But, on a different note, I think firing a weapon should instantly reveal the infil, maybe unless they are using a pistol, in which they would be slightly more visible like it is ps. The more powerful the weapon, the longer their cloak is disabled, but this would not apply to using a knife or laying deployables. Also, I think snipers should be able to swap cloaking for a shield so that they can survive one body shot from another sniper.

Traak · 2011-12-12, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Justaman

no network data on my position will being transmitted.

This is how you make cloakers actually invisible. Make cheating impossible.

Any cloaker that does not have the ability to harm anyone should also be undetectable, as in, no data whatsoever is sent over the internet that users can exploit for massive profits while destroying the game and making Sony look like a bunch of retarded monkeys.

I actually suspect some or all of the cheats are sold by former disgruntled and/or greedy Sony employees that they fired from PS1. Who else would be as motivated and capable of doing the whole damncheaters.com?

Maybe it was a consortium of devs from various games, who knows.

But, making cloakers' positional data be sent to the server by the cloaker, but not to anyone other than those who are within the correct range, would make cloakers more than just the targets for BFR rapes by BFR's that saw them from 50 km away and waltzed over and killed them, even though they were crouched, cloaked, SS on, and in the bottom floor of a tower, in spawns.

But sending all data on everyone to every user, then trusting the client to remain undefiled by anyone? That's like trusting Jack the Ripper to babysit your kids.

No. Again I say no. A thousand times no. A kNo. A MNo. A GNo. If something is at a range at which you are not supposed to detect it, then you don't get any positional data on it, period.

Unclogs the net traffic, and prevents cheats.

This means, again, no Audio Amp, soldiers of any sort not showing up on radar, and people just having to rely on the Model 0 Mark 1's to see their enemies.

Not having Audio Amp and soldiers on radar does more than just eliminate the corner-slobbering HA lazy killers from being of any value, it frees up FAR more processor cycles and network bandwidth for more precise locators of stuff that you actually CAN see, so you get more accurate positional data from stuff that matters, and no positional data clogging the network for stuff that is just fodder for cheat-manufacturers.

The advantage in any combat scenario should go to those with mobility and boldness. Not those camping immobile choke points using radar to find their enemies.

If I'm in a forest, I don't want to know who is there unless I see them or hear them. And I want the same thing for myself on their end. Suspense is enjoyable, too.

Oryon22 · 2011-12-13, 01:00 PM

I am huge fan of the directed anti-cloaker "flashlight".

CrystalViolet · 2011-12-13, 01:50 PM

The other upside to having the cloak detection as a tac light upgrade is that stealthers will be able to see if opposing soldiers have the capability to detect them, and have the opportunity to take measures to avoid being painted. As far as the cone size and illumination time, this could all be hammered out in beta, but I feel like it would be a much better way of handling things on both sides. Not having to wait for implant timers, and not having to assume that everyone has darklight.

Make the flashlight upgrade only available on MA level weapons and below, and force Rexos and above to use disruptor grenades to spot cloakers. This would increase the amount of time that it would take to kill a cloaker via HA weapons, and would give them a fighting chance against heavily armored opponents.

Xyntech · 2011-12-13, 03:08 PM

Speaking of jammers/disruptor grenades, the cloaker should also be able to use them, to disable the cloak detector attachment.

Lonehunter · 2011-12-13, 03:46 PM

Now I'm beginning to wonder how good the graphics are... If you where to actually shine a flashlight on a cloaker, from first person his suit should be able to refract the light as normal and you wouldn't notice him, but from a side angle like a squadmate, he would see a shadow behind the cloaker.

Come on TRay, are the graphics this awesome?

LordReaver · 2011-12-13, 09:20 PM

Haha, the thread title made me laugh.

Raka Maru · 2011-12-13, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

Now I'm beginning to wonder how good the graphics are... If you where to actually shine a flashlight on a cloaker, from first person his suit should be able to refract the light as normal and you wouldn't notice him, but from a side angle like a squadmate, he would see a shadow behind the cloaker.

Come on TRay, are the graphics this awesome?

Cloak shields should be able to bend the light around, so there would be no shadow. Except when using the special flashlight.

Hamma · 2011-12-13, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by LordReaver

Haha, the thread title made me laugh.

Took me to now to realize that

Raka Maru · 2011-12-13, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by LordReaver

Haha, the thread title made me laugh.

haha

Talek Krell · 2011-12-19, 05:59 PM

A lot depends on the lethality that cloakers will have this time around. The invisible PJs worked well enough in PS1 that they were worth using, despite all the complaints. With the lethality being cranked up in PS2, the cloakers having an apparently much wider variety of weapons, and the bases and terrain being redesigned to include multiple paths and back routes I don't think cloakers have that much to worry about.

Justaman · 2011-12-19, 06:53 PM

The biggest thing for me, is wanting stealth to be useful beyond having an inventory full of ACE's.

You could not effectively play as that stealthy guy who stealthily stabbed/shot the odd person in the way of his/her objective (to hack something).

Instead you where forced to play an invisible Explodiphile, if you did not want to become so much more of the kill spam.

I never used the DL vision, because I never needed it. Any high rpm/conical fire/large splash damage (chaingun/LMG/shotgun/lasher?) gun was more than enough to find stealthers. If they're within the same range of you as DL vision gives sight(usually a fair bit more than), a simple 360 of bullet spray, wile making sure you hit the obvious nooks and crannies of hiding, never let me down. They would either get hit, or try to run to safety (making them selves rather visible).

And if it didn't, it just meant the guy had run far enough away that DL vision wouldn't have done anything anyway.

That stealther with his pistol and knife is so intimidating.Must. get. DL. Vision.To.Survive!

Can I counter an aircraft's flight with an implant? Can I counter tanks armor with an implant? Can I counter an engineer's turrets with an implant? No? Why should I counter stealth with an implant?