Obama Gambles On Gay Marriage - Page 4

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-05-18, 09:04 AM

The gamble, warborn, will be that it might cause folks who wouldn't normally bother getting out to vote, but who really hate homosexuals, will go out to vote just to vote for Romney. Also, that bigots who normally vote for Democrats will vote republican instead.

The possible profit would be convincing conservatives and moderates who support gay marriage to come out in favor of him over Romney, who they may have otherwise voted for.

I don't really see it having a major impact; it'll probably be zero sum. It's nice to see it in the national conversation. It's a point of shame for our nation, and it's time we all had a talk about it.

Warborn · 2012-05-18, 09:13 AM

I really have to wonder about that though. The people who are against gay marriage are probably the same people fired up to get Obama out of office anyway, even if it means voting for the Robo-Mormon. I'm not sure Obama pandering to liberals will have much effect on pro-Romney turnout.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-05-18, 09:17 AM

Kerry definitely demonstrated that the "At least I'm not that other guy!" strategy is a faulty one.

Warborn · 2012-05-18, 09:27 AM

It's strange to say it, but I really think the US political theatre changed drastically after the '08 elections. Although the reality is that Obama and Romney would be very similar bought-and-paid-for Presidents, at this point I think all that really matters is the side of the aisle they're from.

Although, funny thought, but approving of gay marriage could actually lose Obama some black voters. If Proposition 8 showed one thing, it's that black people as a demographic do not give a fuck about oppressed minorities on the whole if it's them doing the oppressing. I don't think any group was so against gay marriage as black voters. Over 70% of black people voted to make gay marriage illegal in California.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-05-18, 09:33 AM

I think it'd be more fair to say that people in general don't give a fuck about oppressed minorities unless they are the ones being oppressed. That being said the most harm I see this doing is some black voters just not going to the polls in disfavor. I don't think they will materialize votes for Romney, who frankly doesn't look like he has much to offer any minorities anywhere.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-05-18, 09:43 AM

It'd be racist to say that it's a quality unique to african americans. What I'm saying is that it's barely even worth mentioning because it's true for everyone.

Warborn · 2012-05-18, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

It'd be racist to say that it's a quality unique to african americans. What I'm saying is that it's barely even worth mentioning because it's true for everyone.

That isn't what I'm saying. The other demographics were around 50/50 split on the issue. The only thing I'm saying is that for a demographic with a recent history of oppression and denied rights to use their hard-won freedoms to keep another demographic down is lamentable. The articles I've read speculate it is the result of black people in California being very church-going and giving their pastors a lot of clout, but I don't know what the truth is. Either way I am not saying it's because their skin is darker than most. It isn't a racial thing.

But yeah, if someone's opposition to homosexual equality stems from their church-going habits, they might simply not vote, as I know that mainstream Christians tend not to like Mormons much.

Figment · 2012-05-18, 08:47 PM

Ethnic minorities in the US are pretty religious. Not surprisingly either: who have more need for hope?

Figment · 2012-05-18, 08:51 PM

That and latinos are typically catholic raised. And the afro-American churches have a bit more entertainment than your average reformed or protestant church. Though it's pretty mental in the USA with the... "Extra activities" regarding church.

You hear the Albanian stance on the issue of gay marriage? They just had their first gay pride this week.

Baneblade · 2012-05-18, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

...I know that mainstream Christians tend not to like Mormons much.

That is pretty true. My grandparents once told me Senator Reid could never run for President because he was a Mormon and nobody would vote one into office... enter Romney The Bobblehead.

It seems kind of funny actually, hardcore evangelicals have two choices, both of them evil.

Obama will beat Romney, unless some major paradigm shifts.

Sirisian · 2012-05-18, 10:26 PM

Interesting. In the wake of intolerance we have this recent article from today. (I'm just reading reddit if anyone is curious). Not sure why a university would do such a thing. They had to have known that most professors are generally left leaning. (I've only met one conservative professor at my university).

Sirisian · 2012-05-19, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by elfailo

This should answer your question:

oh no, that part was obvious. It's just doing it while fully aware they'd be offending most of their employees. Seems like someone would have told the person writing up the rules that their bigoted statement would have considerable backlash among the more liberal employees. Unless they did it purposely to try to make the college more conservative. This quote though really sums it up:

Shorter President Don Dowless told WSBTV that their goal "is not to offend people," but to "declare who we are."

Red Beard · 2012-05-19, 02:24 AM

I suppose you guys would argue that churches should not be allowed to turn away people that don't agree with their beliefs. It's sad that it's at the point that churches are getting driven underground now.

Sirisian · 2012-05-19, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Red Beard

I suppose you guys would argue that churches should not be allowed to turn away people that don't agree with their beliefs.

Technically they are private organizations so they can do almost whatever they want. Doesn't mean their outside the bounds of public scrutiny. Like when that Kentucky church banned interracial couples because the congregation was racist.

You have to understand there is a line though. In the US we have the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which got rid of stuff like racial and gender based segregation. A church is exempt from being a "public accommodation" so it can place whatever restrictions it wants on entry. For instance, a Synagogue can use this to stop neo-Nazis from entering. It can also be used for less reasonable things, but the goal was to give churches a lot of liberties.

Originally Posted by Red Beard

It's sad that it's at the point that churches are getting driven underground now.

Exaggerate much? I don't know of any churches driven underground. I mean even hate groups like the Westboro Baptist Church aren't underground and have no problems expressing the most radical of beliefs. Also I hope you're not referring to any Christianity based religion. They have museums now across the country with their beliefs. No one is going underground with their faith. If anything with the current GOP actions they're trying to force their beliefs on everyone when really they should be the only ones following their beliefs.

Red Beard · 2012-05-19, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

It can also be used for less reasonable things, but the goal was to give churches a lot of liberties.

Dude; home bible studies are getting fined for not registering...in america. The collectivism is not promoting freedom.