Ground vehicle driving

[Figment]

@Pyreal:

1. What I mean is only show those players who have been spotted (and for instance leave them sighted for 3 seconds after being spotted). This includes IMO a leaning function.

2. Play PlanetSide today with a radar viral on. It's not fun to be the defending party at all. Not seeing enemies on radar makes you to dependend on random allies telling you where enemies are on an individual basis. That's completely unworkable with the amount of enemies we're talking about here and how fast information becomes outdated with the thrust pads and fast TTKs, etc.

Not to mention "DEFEND THE CONTROL CONSOLE!" "WHICH ONE!?". Completely impossible to communicate clearly without a functional minimap. IMO radar should show spotted enemies. It is still a game and information is crucial in this sort of game.

I'm not saying show them on radar by default, I'm not saying show them on radar just by firing like in CoD, do show them on radar if they have been detected by other players of your empire. Hell, add silencers like in CoD for all I care. IMO PS1 did spotting fairly well aside from the Interlink and Mosquito radars which were over the top with information and that you could look around corners while being on the other side of a wall.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Minimaps with enemy locations are BS.

Yeah, they were bullshit in PS1 as well.

[Virulence]

A close-in chase cam similar to what the Vanguard third person was in PS1 is what I'd prefer.

[Xyntech]

What if vehicles in third person could only see enemy units who would be visible from their first person field of view, with enemies behind terrain, buildings, and to the sides and rear of the vehicle fading out of view?

You could still have friendlies be visible at all times, to help you avoid running them over.

Obviously there would be the potential for hackers finding some workaround to keep those enemies visible at all times, but at least then it would be a clear cheat, not like 3rd person was before where people argued whether it was an exploit or a feature.

3rd person isn't such a vastly exploitable thing for vehicles anyways, so a hacker exploiting it wouldn't even be gaining that much benefit for the risk involved.

I'm pretty sure Forgelight and other modern engines are capable of pulling this off.

[Pyreal]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Yeah, they were bullshit in PS1 as well.

I was thinking more along the lines of BF3, Putz.

[IMMentat]

@Figment
Removing crosshairs does almost nothing to most half decent players, they just learn the mid-point of the gun (assuming small CoF) and adjust accordingly (or put a marker onto their monitor to simulate the crosshair).

If the driver view is near the central (or widest) part of the vehicle there will be less requirement for 3rdPV, it's when the view is from the front bumper or tip of the gun-barrel that mauevering gets difficult.
In the end it's all down to how carefully the main view is positioned, if you can not see or easily estimate the outer edges of your vehicle (hardest to do on curved/vanu/arrowheaded surfaces) then that tree/rock/missile you thought you had avoided is going to take some of your paintwork as a punishment for your difficulties.

[MacXXcaM]

Originally Posted by Erendil

As you all can probably guess I voted YES for full 3rdPV perspective just like in PS1. Here's why:

• It's needed to maneuver around obstacles, especially at high speeds.
• The Mag needs 3rdPV if it's going to have any success at strafing or driving in reverse.
• Driving purely in 1stPV over uneven terrain, while moving fast or for long periods can cause eye strain and headaches/nausea for some players. 3rdPV can alleviate that.
• It's potential for wallhumping abuse is next to nothing since vehicles are huge, loud, and always show on the minimap so you should always know where they are.
• It's incredibly FUN to use. And having FUN is why we're all here, right?
• It can be used as a balancing factor for the smaller, faster vehicles (i.e. ATV, Lightning) by giving their 3rdPV camera a view that's slightly farther out
• It'll probably be needed for ATV's to simply keep control of the vehicle while move at top speed.

And yes, I believe it should point along the turret, not the front of the vehicle, due to the above-mentioned disorientation that switching to a topdown view could cause.

Honestly, I don't understand why some people are so against 3rdPV for vehicles. If it's useful, not unbalancing or OP'd, not open to abuse, relieves eyestrain while driving, and is hellaciously fun, why not include it?

100% agreed.

Also, I agree with the guy who said BF3 spotting is BS ^^

[Mechzz]

I'm not seeing anyone putting forward ways in which 3pv can be abused in a ground vehicle apart from wall-humping. In a game like PS2 wall-humping cannot be a significant issue, can it? Or am I missing something?

Usually when this type of topic comes up, peeps come crawling out of the undergrowth with the "omg, it's sooo OP, nerf it now!" arguments.

Yet on this topic, nada, niets.

So either:
1. There's a conspiracy of silence which is hiding a huge exploit (in which case I hope the devs know about it and don't put in 3pv to prevent it)

or

2. There is no meaningful advantage from 3pv other than the positive ones people have put so eloquently.

I for one don't see why we can't/shouldn't have 3pv.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

I was thinking more along the lines of BF3, Putz.

The problem in BF3 was NOT that you saw spotted enemies on the minimap.

The problem was 3D-spotting and spotting from across the map and the spot taking ages to go away and everyone everywhere seeing you across the map.

If spotting handles like it did in Hardcore then it'd be perfect: only see the enemy on your minimap and only as long as someone sees him.

[MacXXcaM]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

If spotting handles like it did in Hardcore then it'd be perfect: only see the enemy on your minimap and only as long as someone sees him.

I actually prefer the way Red Orchestra 2 did it:
you point at a specific spot on the map where you saw an enemy. You have a marker set to the spot which now everybody can see for a limited amount of time but it's not sure there actually was an enemy player and the marker is not moving with him. It feels pretty realistic this way.

The BF3 3D spotting is the worst imaginable way to do it.

[Baneblade]

TPV will be used to 'watch your six' for infantry trying to flank to your rear for a more effective killzone.

[Sledgecrushr]

I have an idea that might solve this problem entirely. Allow the driver to abandon control of his main gun, pop the hatch and drive the tank from the commande perspective with a pov directly above the tank instead of ten feet above the tank. This would allow greater mobility of the tank around obstacles, but would also weaken the tank and create risk for the driver getting sniped right out of the drivers seat.

[Kipper]

I say 'yes' to 3PV in general, because it looks cool, helps with driving, and is fun.

But I say 'no' to 3PV when it can be used to see around corners, over terrain or behind at all times, or generally places you shouldn't be allowed to see from where you are.

If a way can be found to remove the problems it causes, then great - go for it.... but I can't think of one other than having the view so locked down that it probably wouldn't be any different from a locked cockpit view.

[Rozonus]

For those of you who want 3PV, how do you manage to drive your own cars around in real life without crashing every day?

You'll quickly get used to the size of the vehicles you drive in PS2 so you'll be able to judge gaps etc. As for getting stuck on terrain, surely you'll be watching where you're driving so that you don't hit anything? As with any vehicle you drive (in real life or in-game) it takes time and practice to be good at it.

As for running over friendlies, unless you reverse everywhere then it should be easy to see them in front of your vehicle. Getting them to stop running in front of you is a completely different matter though! No matter how good you are at driving, you can never prepare for players who suffer from DERP, regardless of your perspective.

Although I know that 3PV could be handy in some situations, to me it looks like you're all worried about being blown up by explosives and are hiding behind the argument of 'better perspective for driving'. The simple fact of the matter is that if you don't have team mates or a gunner to guard your blind spots, there's always going to be a chance you'll get blown up by explosives.

[Figment]

@Kipper: look at the video posted in the first post: what you nor your allies can't see, you can't see.

@people making non solutions for non Problems: maybe you should try to define the problem you are trying to solve first... As someone else said, if you don't even know what the problem is, how can you complain about it and how can you come up with a "solution"? Sofar I don't understand what the problem is that a tankdriver (who is also gunner, unfortunately) knows where his enemies are by looking around before having to turn his turret. He has two roles to fulfill and he needs lots of different information to execute either properly!

The insanity of the nerf cryers that don't even know why or how hard they are nerfing and definitely don't think from the used perspective is tremendous. Please, if you are so keen on removing 3rd person, state why. State what your goal is. Look at it from use scenarios (in tank, opponent). Don't just randomly nerf situational awareness if you have no idea what it's for and how you would use either mode.


About the spotting suggestion... You are not seriously proposing to make 666 players on your team set markers on your screen for every individual enemy, are you? Sheesh. Please think practical in the context.