BR40 confirmed - Page 4

Turdicus · 2012-06-01, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

i doubt they're going to make you heaps more powerful, those increases in performance or speed, whatever probabaly only increase your acceleration by 2% or something per point, the last point wouldnt increase it by any more, it would more just be a case of...well iv played the game long enough got most of my certs to a decent level...now its time to spend the big amounts and finish the job.

For me as a scythe pilot i would expect to be putting my points allover the place in scythe so i can be getting asmuch as an advantage as fast as i can for the least possible cert points, i would ten put some into light assault that i would be using when flying so i could bail out safely when flying without the need for inbuilt dampers...and so i can do something when not in the air :P then i will keep disturbing the points evenly in scythe to get the best return for my points. unless ofcourse one cert point is amazing that i MUST max ofcourse...but i think thats probably going to be the way to go. i dont see the point in driving around agetto scythe saving 100 cert points up to get like 2% more acceleration when with those points i could increase my speed, damage, turning and hp all by say 4% each.

Hm, yeah, a possibility of course. Looks like its another one of those situations where we will have to wait and see who is right haha

SKYeXile · 2012-06-01, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Turdicus

Hm, yeah, a possibility of course. Looks like its another one of those situations where we will have to wait and see who is right haha

well they have previously stated that through cert points and outfit specilisation that the most advantage a vet would have over a greenie is like 25%, thats taking into consideration all advantages he would have.

I really cant see the certs been anything more than small tiny upgrades...except the ones that like add a handbrake or something as we saw.

Death2All · 2012-06-01, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Virulence

It'll take a long time to get enough certs to unlock EVERYTHING, I'm sure, and they'll undoubtedly add new vehicles, weapons, whatever through future updates which will give you even MORE things to spend cert points on.

How do you know how long it will take to a max out a character? You don't. I'm not angry at you specifically, just the notion that people know how long it will take max out a character. Games are increasingly getting easier and easier to Max out a character in order to appeal to a more casualized audience that doesn't have the time to give to level their character to the MAX. Look at Diablo 3, the max level is 60 and I got that within 3 days of release, and I wasn't even playing that hardcore.

The evidence clearly eludes to the fact that it's becoming a less strenuous, time consuming effort to max out a character. The point is, it's just stupid to dismiss an entire legitimate concern based on loose information we've been nonchalantly given over the past months.

But what do I know? This game is being modeled after BF3 and the leveling system will probably resemble that exactly. I'm not over familiar with BF3, but in BC2 I put in about 60 hours and only reached about level 30, so who knows.

Turdicus · 2012-06-01, 01:18 AM

Hey now death, I won't speak for everyone but most people do their best to recognize that speculation is the name of the game in these forums right now. The issue hasn't been dismissed, its just being counter argued. As an MMO in general SOE has a long maximum cert system in their best interest. This is especially the case since it is a f2p mmo, where longevity is the money maker. This contrasts with something like BF3, where the developers were only actually concerned with making people commit to that initial purchase.

Two different situations

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Problem with BR40

I think there's very few people who don't have a problem with it but I wish people would stop using it as the basis for their 'anti-PS1-cert-inventory-system' when it's the mangled horrible result of many years of cert bundles/cost reductions/free awards and bears almost no resemblance to what the original system was designed and balanced to achieve!

Death2All · 2012-06-01, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Turdicus

Hey now death, I won't speak for everyone but most people do their best to recognize that speculation is the name of the game in these forums right now. The issue hasn't been dismissed, its just being counter argued. As an MMO in general SOE has a long maximum cert system in their best interest. This is especially the case since it is a f2p mmo, where longevity is the money maker. This contrasts with something like BF3, where the developers were only actually concerned with making people commit to that initial purchase.

Two different situations

There's a difference in saying "it will take this long" and "what if it takes this long". Unfortunately, I lack the ability to read minds and the only medium I have to interpret people's opinions is through text.

With that notion established, the majority of posts are constructed in the "it will" fashion, implying that they know exactly what they're talking about, hence the anger fuming from my soul and steam blowing out of my ears. Just kidding, I'm not really that upset, I just despise when people act like they know what they're talking about when they have just as little of a clue as the rest of us.

Good point about the BF3 trying to snag people for the initial purchase versus PS2's longevity. One can hope that they will follow through and give us a rigorous leveling system that will take many months to complete, even for the most hardcore gamer. I wouldn't mind another long and strenuous BR 40 grind (with no certs [I feel like I should say that before I'm crucified

])

SKYeXile · 2012-06-01, 01:29 AM

the skinner box will keep people playing, then when you have maxed all certs, they release another box for the same ones...this requires 1000 certs to max though...and you like a good little lemming keep p(l)aying, keep paying for increased cert point acquisition.

p0intman · 2012-06-01, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Problem with BR40 in PS was that you could almost be ready for absolutely everything in one loadout. HA,AV, MedApp, REK, BANK, REXO, BOOMER, JAMMER, CUD, then the vehicles...

You're not going to have that possibility in PS2.

The problem with your reasoning is that you're terrible.

I know of day-one newbies that can create a better loadout than this.

By the way, care to mention how much exp it takes to get TO 40?

300k a box going from 39 to 40. thats three million exp for just the last level.

SKYeXile · 2012-06-01, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

The problem with your reasoning is that you're terrible.

I know of day-one newbies that can create a better loadout than this.

lol.

p0intman · 2012-06-01, 01:42 AM

I think maybe you should be more reasonable. It was never a "BR40" problem. This is something you can do BEFORE BR30. Ready?

Second plasma loadout added for laughs. Really? Man, those thumper whores must be a pain. I'm litterally at the point where the next person who mentions that its a "BR40" supersoldier problem loses all ability to say they ever played planetside at any length.

Virulence · 2012-06-01, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Death2All

How do you know how long it will take to a max out a character? You don't. I'm not angry at you specifically, just the notion that people know how long it will take max out a character. Games are increasingly getting easier and easier to Max out a character in order to appeal to a more casualized audience that doesn't have the time to give to level their character to the MAX. Look at Diablo 3, the max level is 60 and I got that within 3 days of release, and I wasn't even playing that hardcore.

The evidence clearly eludes to the fact that it's becoming a less strenuous, time consuming effort to max out a character. The point is, it's just stupid to dismiss an entire legitimate concern based on loose information we've been nonchalantly given over the past months.

But what do I know? This game is being modeled after BF3 and the leveling system will probably resemble that exactly. I'm not over familiar with BF3, but in BC2 I put in about 60 hours and only reached about level 30, so who knows.

Diablo 3 is a terrible example. Sure, you can hit level 60 in a couple of days without too much trouble - but it's going to take significantly longer than it does to go from 1-60 to farm the gear to fully "max yourself out" (or in the case of D3 farm the gear to sell to buy gear off of the AH to max yourself out). Look at WoW - going from 1-85 doesn't take much time, but it takes a significant amount of time to fully gear out your character in the highest tier of gear available, whether it's PvP or PvE gear. It takes a significant amount of playing time to unlock everything in LoL. Same thing with Tribes: Ascend, and with a number of other games I could cite.

While I can't say if it's going to take 500 hours of playing to unlock all of the certs, or if it'll take 250, or if it'll only take 60, it's a safe assumption that "It will take a long time." They aren't going to have a system where people play for 6 hours and can then unlock everything. With having the ability to unlock things for station cash and buy boosts, they're going to want there to be a reason to spend station cash and buy those boosts.

They want to refer to LoL as an analogue for how they're modeling their cash shop, so the issues with the LoL shop are a perfectly valid comparison. Here's a quick rundown of how unlocking things in LoL works for those who are unfamiliar with it: You can buy XP (you gain experience from level 1 to 30, which gets you mastery points - talent points in typical MMO terms - and unlocks rune slots) and IP boosts with Riot Points, the real money LoL currency. You can unlock Champions with Influence Points,the currency you earn by playing the game, and Riot Points. However, you can only unlock Runes with Influence Points, and those are a direct power bonus, so you're a little more inclined to unlock champions with RP so you can save your IP for Runes. You can also unlock different skins for champions as well, but only with RP. Sound familiar?

With regards to the main debate in this thread: I don't have a huge problem with letting people be able to be really versatile and unlock all the things. If they played for 500 hours and killed 8 billion dudes they earned it. If those people can't unlock all of the certs on one character, they'll just create another character and unlock the rest of them on that one, and switch back and forth between characters depending on what they want to do at any given time. You can stop that by doing very harsh, restrictive things like limiting players to only one character AND you can only spend up to x number of cert points. At that point, people would just make another account and switch between them. If you use an RPG system, there's no good way around that "THIS GUY CAN DO EVERYTHING AND IS A REALLY VERSATILE PLAYER" problem.

I do have a problem with facilitating a high barrier of entry for new players come 6, 12, or 24 months after launch. The nature of games is that people get bored of them after a while and then move on to other things, and if you have game systems in place that are problematic for new players, that's going to hurt the game - and the people that really really really love it and keep playing it - in the long term. If you have a very large playerbase you don't feel that as much (particularly in the case of LoL where players are very heavily separated by level and ELO), but it's still a valid concern.

And I'm not saying "THIS WILL KILL TEH GAME!11!" either. I'm saying, "Hey, this is something that's kind of concerning that we should be aware of and keep an eye on as we move forward."

p0intman · 2012-06-01, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

the skinner box will keep people playing, then when you have maxed all certs, they release another box for the same ones...this requires 1000 certs to max though...and you like a good little lemming keep p(l)aying, keep paying for increased cert point acquisition.

people pay CCP to skill up in EVE. Thankfully, I do this but haven't actually paid CCP in years. Thankfully, SOE are making PS2 free, with their flawed design they at least know they don't deserve regular cash income from it. Unlike CCP, who have too many lemmings paying them.

Death2All · 2012-06-01, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Virulence

I don't have a huge problem with letting people be able to be really versatile and unlock all the things. If they played for 500 hours and killed 8 billion dudes they earned it. If those people can't unlock all of the certs on one character, they'll just create another character and unlock the rest of them on that one, and switch back and forth between characters depending on what they want to do at any given time. You can stop that by doing very harsh, restrictive things like limiting players to only one character AND you can only spend up to x number of cert points. At that point, people would just make another account and switch between them. If you use an RPG system, there's no good way around that "THIS GUY CAN DO EVERYTHING AND IS A REALLY VERSATILE PLAYER" problem.

The point is you should have a problem with letting someone do everything. Anyone worth their salt agrees that BR40 ruined the game with the over abundance of certifications that killed off any variety or point to having a "role" within the game.

When people want the "certification" you can pretty much gaurentee (unless they're a bumbling fucktard) that they're referring the one that shipped with the game originally (limited number of cert points, no cert bundles, no veteran rewards) etc.

I'm tired of people's narrow minded views on what the certification system is, and their complete dismissal of it because they think we want the most recent incarnation of it, I.E:

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Problem with BR40 in PS was that you could almost be ready for absolutely everything in one loadout. HA,AV, MedApp, REK, BANK, REXO, BOOMER, JAMMER, CUD, then the vehicles...

You're not going to have that possibility in PS2.

So many dismiss the old certification system and say they're in favor of the new one. Which, more or less keeps all of the flaws of the BR40 escapade and doesn't solve anything. They then go on to say that the old system was good but you had to take so long to recert your skills. THEN WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT? Do you want a harsh cert system that defines your role or do you want a free based versatile cert system "let's doo watever u want xDD" but then go on to complain doing able to do whatever you want is an issue? Honestly, what the fuck.

Originally Posted by Virulence

I do have a problem with facilitating a high barrier of entry for new players come 6, 12, or 24 months after launch.

It's funny how you said that...like literally after you just said this:

Originally Posted by Virulence

I don't have a huge problem with letting people be able to be really versatile and unlock all the things. If they played for 500 hours and killed 8 billion dudes they earned it.

I don't think you know what you want.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Death2All

Honestly, what the fuck.

Although in their defence, those wanting the original PS cert system don't often state that it is the release version, just the 'system' and rightly or wrongly the others assume BR40.

Virulence · 2012-06-01, 02:34 AM

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can have a certification system that lets someone fill a number of roles depending on the situation but avoids things like, "I have these certs so that means my tank is 50% harder to kill and does 30% more damage so lololol gtfo noobs." It's especially important because PS2 probably isn't going to segregate players into levels/rating like LoL does.

People are going to gravitate towards the playstyle they enjoy most regardless of having the choice of doing everything; sure, there will be times when they switch their roles to min/max in order to greatly benefit their squad/platoon/outfit, and it's cool that they have that choice - and it should be that their experience dictates their advantage, not "does x thing y% better because they unlocked z cert."

You want to have people heavily restricted on what they have access to, sure - but they're going to pick the thing they love most, neglect everything else, and I wouldn't be surprised to see spam like "LF GAL PILOT WITH CLOAK BUBBLE CERT TO DEPLOY FOR ZERG PST!1!!" because people are just certed into the thing they like the most - killing dudes in whatever fashion, and the dedicated gal pilots with the really really good cert are probably going to be exclusively running with their outfit. Who does that benefit, really?