Head shots, body shots, TTK - Page 4

goneglockin · 2012-06-13, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

No, I don't think I'm wrong.

Simple reason is that you think in a 1vs1 scenario, while I think in a scenario where a 1vs1 can quickly turn into a Xvs1 if it takes to long to kill someone.

Ganking happens in every game regardless of TTK. I know what you're trying to say but you're still wrong. It takes a predetermined minimum amount of time to kill someone for any given weapon, and whether it's 1 second or 1 minute TTKs, a player fighting multiple people will have the same odds.

Unless you aren't fighting them at all. Unless... You're talking about "tactics." i.e. Sneaking up on a group that is fighting others, so you can spray several people in the back before any of them have a chance to notice. Those are the only time the odds are different depending on the TTK, because the longer it takes, the better the odds are they will turn around and shoot you in the face.

So why is shooting people in the back a good reason for low TTK? If you were concerned about a single player being ganked, you'd be more in favor of health drops from killed players than fractional second TTKs for spraying groups.

Fighting two players at a time, and getting a health drop from the first one you kill is the right way to put skill back into it. It's all in the compounding effects of the different game mechanics, not so much one number of one mechanic, that determines how an FPS game plays.

captainkapautz · 2012-06-13, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by goneglockin

Ganking happens in every game regardless of TTK. I know what you're trying to say but you're still wrong. It takes a predetermined minimum amount of time to kill someone for any given weapon, and whether it's 1 second or 1 minute TTKs, a player fighting multiple people will have the same odds.

I said when a 1vs1 turns into an Xvs1, clearly stating that the fight started with just me and him, but his friend/s joining in when it takes to long.

Originally Posted by goneglockin

Unless you aren't fighting them at all. Unless... You're talking about "tactics." i.e. Sneaking up on a group that is fighting others, so you can spray several people in the back before any of them have a chance to notice. Those are the only time the odds are different depending on the TTK, because the longer it takes, the better the odds are they will turn around and shoot you in the face.

Those "tactics" are called ambushes or surprise attacks.

Originally Posted by goneglockin

So why is shooting people in the back a good reason for low TTK? If you were concerned about a single player being ganked, you'd be more in favor of health drops from killed players than fractional second TTKs for spraying groups.

Fighting two players at a time, and getting a health drop from the first one you kill is the right way to put skill back into it. It's all in the compounding effects of the different game mechanics, not so much one number of one mechanic, that determines how an FPS game plays.

I don't care about a single player being ganked, if he goes up against X amount of players with them fully aware if him.

Forsaken One · 2012-06-13, 10:03 PM

I like long TTKs only when a game does not have headshots.

I HATE when games have headshots and it takes 1-3 headshots to kill someone but like 6+ body shots to kill someone.

IF there is headshots I like short 3- body hits to kill someone.

ParisTeta · 2012-06-13, 10:23 PM

What if Headshot work this way, they have a slight multiplicator like 1.1 or 1.2, and part of the damage goes right through the shield/armor. If there is no shield/armor, it does full HP Damage of course.

Some sprayed shots wont ruin the day, but continuely hits would bring you down very fast.

The DEVs seems mostly smart (except Magrider *sight*) and thoughtful what they do, i guess they have something in mind, if not implented it already, not to die instantly to often.

Something like this would explain why Burster Flak can make good kills with headshot, as far as i remember, most not AI weapons sucks manly on the armor, but was little more effective on pure health.

Timealude · 2012-06-13, 10:31 PM

i think it should only take 1- 2 head shots for lighter armor targets anymore then that and your punishing the player for playing a sniper and playing that way. Even though it may seem like a cheap shot you should reward a player for being able to take the head off someone while moving or from really far away as well as comping for bullet drop/bullet degradation. I can see why it would require more shots to take down a MAX or a HA. Also its not like this rifle is a semi auto, its bolt action style there for they have to reload after each shot so should that shot count for something? Also for the Normal infantry weapons, they should require a little bit more damage seeing as they arent as high caliber bullet.

OutlawDr · 2012-06-13, 10:34 PM

They could implement halo like shield/headshot mechanics like someone suggested earlier. Shields provide headshot immunity except to high power low ROF weapons, such as sniper rifles, battle rifles and magnum-like handguns. Any initial panic spray and pray would confer no advantage. Once shields are down, headshots are open to all weapons.

DarkChiron · 2012-06-13, 10:57 PM

I think having TTK on the level of CoD would be a huge problem in combat zones with many combatants. But like others have said, I think a return to the old PS1 values would be too much. It just depends, I suppose.

When you factor in things like medics, engineers, and refilling health/shields (which from E3 footage you can CERT into to make them regen better/differently), TTK becomes a more complicated topic.

The only thing I'm worried about is too much of a disparity between classes, namely light armor classes being TOO easy to kill. Of course heavy armors need to be better at taking damage, but it'll suck if the light armor units can't survive enough for their maneuverability to even be a factor.

brinkdadrink · 2012-06-13, 11:22 PM

I personally am not a fan of low TTK times. It promotes more of a solo play than team play.

That said the TTK should not be as high as PS1 mainly because it was too easy to survive. I would like to see it in the middle like most others have said.

Another reason to add to this argument is the TIME TO RETURN TO BATTLE. In modern shooters with such small maps you are back in the action within 10 seconds. In Planetside 2 that will be closer to 30sec to as high as a 1 min or maybe even more. Because of this I would not want to die in 1 second by random fire.

This fact along with as been said of larger numbers I personally dont want to see the TTK as low as BF3/COD3

Madlaps · 2012-06-14, 01:25 AM

Take a base defense from PS1, could you see any chance of getting through a choke point (In PS2... bio lab?) through a door of a facility with the Planetside 2 TTK?

You guys are talking 1v1 TTK, so what happens when it's 10 people point their guns at a door and 1 person walks in - it's going to be interesting once beta is up at least what happens to the TTK.

E3 showed Planetside 2 as a deathmatch, there was no organisation, no one ran around together.. there was no attack/defend scenario as the game will be when opened up. I think the TTK will get raised once we see what happens to attackers when theres 100-200 people defending a base.. all shooting the same direction - whether it be down a corridor or out in the open.

captainkapautz · 2012-06-14, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by Madlaps

Take a base defense from PS1, could you see any chance of getting through a choke point (In PS2... bio lab?) through a door of a facility with the Planetside 2 TTK?

A better chance then in PS1.

Because unlike the guys outside, the guys inside don't really have anywhere to go to dodge AoE.

Tarconus · 2012-06-14, 01:42 AM

You know what would help vehicles take out damage from the environment. There's no reason to have it in at all.

Elim · 2012-06-14, 04:18 AM

TTK also affects the pace of the fight, and for the game to have a modern feel(pace) as well as a TTK time that everyone don't die in a fraction of a second in a chaotic battle is hard to tell.

I am confident that once the game is in open beta where huge battles occur constantly, there will easily be enough data to fine tune TTK.

As for HA, people at E3 hardly use the pshield, which I imagine to be OP since it can be use to survive some tank shots.

Sabot · 2012-06-14, 04:39 AM

The HA shield does seem a little OP, yeah... TTK goes up with like 20 hits. I don't know if it's on a timer as well as dmg absorption, i.e, the shield only last a set amount time, even though no dmg is taken... also what CD is it on, if any?

TerminatorUK · 2012-06-14, 07:28 AM

I'm hoping they'll tweak it to the point where it the TTK is akin to a medic with the body armour perk in BF:BC2 against non-magnum ammo.

That was roughly somewhere smack bang in the middle of the TTK in BF3 and that of Planetside 1 I'd say.

Stew · 2012-06-14, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by brinkdadrink

I personally am not a fan of low TTK times. It promotes more of a solo play than team play.

That said the TTK should not be as high as PS1 mainly because it was too easy to survive. I would like to see it in the middle like most others have said.

Another reason to add to this argument is the TIME TO RETURN TO BATTLE. In modern shooters with such small maps you are back in the action within 10 seconds. In Planetside 2 that will be closer to 30sec to as high as a 1 min or maybe even more. Because of this I would not want to die in 1 second by random fire.

This fact along with as been said of larger numbers I personally dont want to see the TTK as low as BF3/COD3

This statment is wrong to me having a low or medium low ttk do not encourage or discourage solo play !

The low or medium ttk simply allow people to not be compleatly pawn by outnumbers zerg when they are actually better players

In a low TTk senario 5 guys can win a 5 vs 12 is a high ttk the 5 vs 12 guys will ends up in a 0 vs 11 or 0 vs 10 thats mean they will be maybe able to kill one or 2 guys but they have no chance

also the high ttk allow bad player to have the time to flee or simply get reinforcement before they died and you personally in a 1 vs 1 figth end up with no kill 1 dead and also

whith a high ttk the people will run around like chikens since they know they will be hard as MAX to kill with a infantry it simply do not make sens !

High ttk did not encourage team play it simply make ZERG invisible