Infiltrator scope / sights - Page 4

The noob · 2012-07-01, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Russ

Id also like to point out that infiltrators as a class have the lowest shield and health of any other. Making them the most fragile, aka why they have a cloak to supplement that. So having one running an gunning would not really help them out at all.

Before someone comments on the cloak being op. Cloaks are not 100% invisibility, even the most camouflaging only lasts a few seconds and takes several more to recharge (stated by Higby). So as distance increases their cloak is more effective, same thing is true with modern camo patterns. So everything points to them staying AWAY from their target. Not upclose.

EDIT: TTK was much high in PS1 so it made sense to make it a 2 shot kill then.

When it comes to cloaks, I believed they said that if you completely sacrifice a primary weapon, that you'd gain borderline, if not full on invisiblity, alongside a longer cloak. Essentially, an infiltrator who wishes to operate in close quarters areas without fear of being easily seen can do so, it will simply take sacrifices to do so (which would mean no sniper rifles, smgs, or shotguns, which all have a lot of killing power in the right situations).

Russ · 2012-07-01, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by The noob

When it comes to cloaks, I believed they said that if you completely sacrifice a primary weapon, that you'd gain borderline, if not full on invisiblity, alongside a longer cloak. Essentially, an infiltrator who wishes to operate in close quarters areas without fear of being easily seen can do so, it will simply take sacrifices to do so (which would mean no sniper rifles, smgs, or shotguns, which all have a lot of killing power in the right situations).

Giving up primary? No, there are countless pictures not to mention E3 footage showing otherwise. Though i do think i hear Higby comment on if you wanted to go completely invisible it may take you primary away. But it sounded like an idea floating and not something actually currently in.

The noob · 2012-07-01, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Russ

Giving up primary? No, there are countless pictures not to mention E3 footage showing otherwise. Though i do think i hear Higby comment on if you wanted to go completely invisible it may take you primary away. But it sounded like an idea floating and not something actually currently in.

Who knows, it may be an idea, but I remember things similar to this being mentioned all the way back in the PcGamer mags (feels so long since then). It would be a rather nice idea actually, sacrifice long range abilites so you can operate better in close quarters (for example, specializing in hacking, knives, etc), and vice versa.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-07-01, 11:04 PM

Yes, Planetside had a high TTK... it also had a more difficult to use sniper rifle. A second shot should be rewarded, since the first one isn't the hard to get.

OSK on snipers is fine though... the more dead snipers the better.

Vydofnir · 2012-07-02, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by fedhell

Im not sure why you hate quickscoping. I find it the best of both worlds. I can preform at short med and long ranges. A shotty really falls off at med long, where as the sniper in vid 1 has quite the range. Its enjoyable, quite the rush, as if you miss the first bullet at med/close your probably dead. It does take skill.

Please elaboriate why its so bad.

-Fedhell

EDIT: Ive also recorded a video of me playing blacklight retribution soo ill add that below so you can see that i dont really play it like running around with a shotty. Unlike the first vid i still like to hold my range. Please ignore my voice it sounds horrible recorded :-(.

To be honest, the first video in the OP actually made me sick to my stomach. I'm extremely out of practice when it comes to FPS, and I was never exactly top drawer to begin with, so there is no way I'm going to be getting a kill in edgewise if that's what I have to compete with on a regular basis.

That being said, I felt like your video was a much fairer portrayal of what you're getting at. As far as I could tell, what you were doing was no where near game-breaking, and it was clear that there was a respectable amount of skill involved on your part. If you want to slap a 4x scope onto a bolt action rifle, that's fine by me.

It seems to me that the best way to balance the issue is to make the weight of a weapon a factor in determining the speed at which you can sight it. Sniper rifles would sight slower than assault rifles, assault rifles slower than carbines, etc. The attachments you choose could have an effect on this as well: You want an over-sized scope on your battle rifle or a grenade launcher on your AR? That's perfectly fine, but there would be a tradeoff.

TAA · 2012-07-02, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by OnexBigxHebrew

Not an quick-sniper myself, but anyone who gimps themselves or makes a gameplay decision based on how a bunch of babies will think of them is a tool. I don't do it, but I'm not going to bomb on someone for using (or even abusing) something to win. If something is overpowered, you blame the developer, not the player. Any serious FPS player understands this.

QFT.

Gandhi · 2012-07-02, 06:24 AM

A bolt action can be OSK on other snipers, 2+ shots on everyone else. Everyone's happy, right?

The noob · 2012-07-02, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

A bolt action can be OSK on other snipers, 2+ shots on everyone else. Everyone's happy, right?

I think most people are arguing about quick scoping and no scoping, not on the ability to one shot. I'm relatively fine with it as long as the heavies and maxes aren't one shot able, and that there are no one shot body shots,, which is common in low TTK games, that's just bullshit right there. Hitting a moving target in the head isn't exactly the easiest thing, taking travel time and bullet drop into consideration as well.

Gandhi · 2012-07-02, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by The noob

I think most people are arguing about quick scoping and no scoping, not on the ability to one shot.

Well that's easy. No and no.

Firing a sniper rifle without scoping should be wildly inaccurate, to the tune of the COF taking up half the screen. It's supposed to be the exact opposite of a close quarters weapon, so it should be just as useless at close range as a shotgun is at long range. Otherwise what's the point? We're talking about designing fitting game mechanics here, not real life.

Quick scoping ties into that as well. I can't think of a single redeeming quality for it from a game design standpoint.

The noob · 2012-07-02, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Well that's easy. No and no.

Firing a sniper rifle without scoping should be wildly inaccurate, to the tune of the COF taking up half the screen. It's supposed to be the exact opposite of a close quarters weapon, so it should be just as useless at close range as a shotgun is at long range. Otherwise what's the point? We're talking about designing fitting game mechanics here, not real life.

Quick scoping ties into that as well. I can't think of a single redeeming quality for it from a game design standpoint.

Agreed, I wasn't supporting any of them. I don't think they have any place here, and would make 1 shotting OP if people could run around using them as close range shotguns.

CutterJohn · 2012-07-02, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Rasui

Ok, this post just feels petty. Is there a point to your argument or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Because all I can seem to discern is that you're in favor of an awful mechanic that shouldn't exist in ANY game.

Explain how you would prevent someone from putting that on their sniper rifle? Its a scope rail, pretty standard stuff.

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Well that's easy. No and no.

Firing a sniper rifle without scoping should be wildly inaccurate, to the tune of the COF taking up half the screen. It's supposed to be the exact opposite of a close quarters weapon, so it should be just as useless at close range as a shotgun is at long range. Otherwise what's the point? We're talking about designing fitting game mechanics here, not real life.

Quick scoping ties into that as well. I can't think of a single redeeming quality for it from a game design standpoint.

Shotguns are not useless at long range. With a proper saboted slug you can hit accurately out to 150-200m. With buckshot, you'll have a 1-2m wide pattern at 100m, depending on choke used.

Sniper rifles are mostly just slightly heavier caliber rifles. M-14s are used as sniper rifles. They were a standard issue battle rifle for 20 years. Others are just modified hunting rifles. If you're talking something like a .50 caliber, irl, you wouldn't use one of those standing up. But this is a game where you can run around with a rocket launcher and MCG, so realism doesn't really work as an argument, nor the fact that its heavy.

I don't get why people think weapons should be so stratified. Sure, a sniper rifle should be a bad choice for CQC. But that shouldn't mean its pointless to pull out due to ridiculous restrictions on it. Just like an LMG or MCG should be able to lay a good stream of fire on a snipers position. That doesn't mean its a good weapon for that role, it just means its not its strong suit.

ziegler · 2012-07-02, 08:31 AM

I dont play COD...but quick scoping is a problem in PC games? I know its a problem on consoles due to them compensating for playing with boxing gloves compared to a PC.

But quickscoping is a problem in PC games like the BF series? never heard it before.

Gandhi · 2012-07-02, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Shotguns are not useless at long range. With a proper saboted slug you can hit accurately out to 150-200m. With buckshot, you'll have a 1-2m wide pattern at 100m, depending on choke used.

Sniper rifles are mostly just slightly heavier caliber rifles. M-14s are used as sniper rifles. They were a standard issue battle rifle for 20 years. Others are just modified hunting rifles. If you're talking something like a .50 caliber, irl, you wouldn't use one of those standing up. But this is a game where you can run around with a rocket launcher and MCG, so realism doesn't really work as an argument, nor the fact that its heavy.

I'm confused. I thought we were talking about a video game here?

Envenom · 2012-07-02, 12:36 PM

Quick scoping is the bane of video games and has no place in PS2. Go play CoD.

proxy · 2012-07-02, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Envenom

Quick scoping is the bane of video games and has no place in PS2. Go play CoD.

No you.

Personally, I like the medium range recon the OP talks about. I can give overwatch to squad mates, be a spawn point, etc. I think every squad deserves a designated marksman.