Sunderer as transport vehicle? - Page 4

robocpf1 · 2012-07-10, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Troika

Most valuable asset in game are the players. It might take a few minutes longer to assemble your tank army and it might cost 12 times more. Still, when you encounter an enemy - pound for pound your boys will ditch out at least as much damage to the enemy as they are ditching out at you and that justifies the cost - whatever it is and I refuse to gimp my boys for the journey for the sake of saving few minutes.

I don't think anyone's debating the effectiveness of 1 Sunderer vs. 12 Tanks in a straight-out fight, I think the key phrase was "transport vehicle".

If you're transporting people, usually you need to get somewhere within a certain time (timers on missions, or on base hacks) or you need to respond to a threat by an enemy as quickly as possible. Waiting around for twelve people to pull their tanks isn't going to cut it for fast(ish) transport. That is what the Galaxy and Sunderer are for.

Troika · 2012-07-10, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by robocpf1

I don't think anyone's debating the effectiveness of 1 Sunderer vs. 12 Tanks in a straight-out fight, I think the key phrase was "transport vehicle".

If you're transporting people, usually you need to get somewhere within a certain time (timers on missions, or on base hacks) or you need to respond to a threat by an enemy as quickly as possible. Waiting around for twelve people to pull their tanks isn't going to cut it for fast(ish) transport. That is what the Galaxy and Sunderer are for.

My argument is that players should always be equipped to fight at max effectiveness as they are the ones winning fights. 12 guys in tanks are going to win fights 12 guys in a sunderer probably not as they are gimped against enemy force of same size.

Sunderer is good assault vehicle when you need to get your guys reliably to the objective through enemy defences in an expendable vehicle which you can then discard and that is about it. Traversing a longer distance should not be done In a Sundy as if you get jumped, you are not capable fighting at your max effectiveness, and couple guys in tanks/reavers can own you.

If we are in a hurry I still refuse leaving to the fight unprepared, if time runs out so be it. We cap it when we get there.

Kalbuth · 2012-07-11, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Troika

Most valuable asset in game are the players. It might take a few minutes longer to assemble your tank army and it might cost 12 times more. Still, when you encounter an enemy - pound for pound your boys will ditch out at least as much damage to the enemy as they are ditching out at you and that justifies the cost - whatever it is and I refuse to gimp my boys for the journey for the sake of saving few minutes.

In the time you prepare your tanks, I'll get my sunderer squad in your gen and prevent you from getting your tanks

Flaropri · 2012-07-11, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Troika

If we are in a hurry I still refuse leaving to the fight unprepared, if time runs out so be it. We cap it when we get there.

So you'd rather have an assured defeat (resetting the battle or worse) than take a risk for victory?

Besides, with the resource system it isn't always an option to have everyone mount up in tanks or fighters rather than use a transport.

Troika · 2012-07-11, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Flaropri

So you'd rather have an assured defeat (resetting the battle or worse) than take a risk for victory?.

We are not fighting in a void, if other teams can't do their part in the fight then we lose - sure. But in a game like this you can seldom foresee the exact time you have to get the job done - hundreds of people are fighting beside you, and you ow them to fight at your max effectiveness and not charge in in a gimped setup.

Besides, with the resource system it isn't always an option to have everyone mount up in tanks or fighters rather than use a transport.

Well then of course there is no other option. You work with the tools you have.

Baneblade · 2012-07-11, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Redshift

My point is more that he's never driven the vehicle, he's no idea what it's like, we don't even know what it does yet, and he wants to build an outfit around it, before beta. That outfit is doomed to failure.

Holy shit dude...

For one, War Machine is built around Vanguards, Lightnings, and Sunderers. We plan based on what we know, and adjust based on what we learn... just like everyfuckinbody else.

Don't be a twit.

Flaropri · 2012-07-11, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Troika

We are not fighting in a void, if other teams can't do their part in the fight then we lose - sure. But in a game like this you can seldom foresee the exact time you have to get the job done - hundreds of people are fighting beside you, and you ow them to fight at your max effectiveness and not charge in in a gimped setup.

Timers and missions can give you a fairly good idea though.

For me, precisely because you're fighting with hundreds of people, it is important to be able to have a timely response. If the battle is lost because you're late, you're doing a disservice to those that were fighting in it.

Fighting with full capacity is valuable, but so is flexibility and the ability to adapt to changing battlefield conditions. You want to specialize? Please do, hopefully there will be enough of an active population that it won't be a problem so you can enjoy your style of play while still performing important functions for others. I do however think you're holding a narrow view as to the value of transports and responding to a situation quicker.

Redshift · 2012-07-12, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Holy shit dude...

For one, War Machine is built around Vanguards, Lightnings, and Sunderers. We plan based on what we know, and adjust based on what we learn... just like everyfuckinbody else.

Don't be a twit.

Sorry figments extending a small point into a hypothetical argument.

Our conversation is you say you'll use the sunderer loads and me saying you don't know what it does yet

Top Sgt · 2012-07-12, 02:42 AM

have you listened to the devs op? The sunderer is super heavily armored equal to a main battle tank level.. has 2 guns on top 1of which can be set to AA. With how full the air will likely be around bases.. it's the new gal drop for PS2.. drive a platoon using 3 of these into a base and jump out and rush the cap points.. that will be a very effective tactic in this game.

First vehicle i am spawning in game is the sunderer.. they are also faster than your giving credit for.

Firearms · 2012-07-12, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Troika

If we are in a hurry I still refuse leaving to the fight unprepared, if time runs out so be it. We cap it when we get there.

Double bagging is cool an'all but I'm sure you're not both talking about the same situations.
A Sunderer is gonna roll in and drop off the guys for the hack etc. Hopefully even drive back and get the next lot - Like a Galaxy but without all that Z-axis craziness.
A tank column is slick and will lead the way no doubt, but you're not really gonna roll in with 12 of 'em and get the valet to park them while you all pile out are you?
If that's really true you're the guy that takes the only tank to get to the airfield in BF1942...nobody likes that guy

Baneblade · 2012-07-12, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

Sorry figments extending a small point into a hypothetical argument.

Our conversation is you say you'll use the sunderer loads and me saying you don't know what it does yet

It is a mobile vehicle repair station with more armor than an MBT, it can carry our mobile infantry, and it can push through an enemy Prowler line. I plan to call our Sunderer drivers, Linebackers.

What else do we need to know?

JesNC · 2012-07-12, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

It is a mobile vehicle repair station with more armor than an MBT, it can carry our mobile infantry, and it can push through an enemy Prowler line. I plan to call our Sunderer drivers, Linebackers.

What else do we need to know?

That it's got an infantry supply station, too ^^

These things will be the backbone of any coordinated assault.

Baneblade · 2012-07-12, 08:52 AM

Well there you go, the only thing it doesn't do is spawn players. Which I don't want it to do anyway.

Figment · 2012-07-12, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Well there you go, the only thing it doesn't do is spawn players. Which I don't want it to do anyway.

Agreed as well. Btw, cheap and heavily armoured?

Who says you ever use one Sunderer at a time? ;p

Baneblade · 2012-07-12, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Who says you ever use one Sunderer at a time? ;p

'They're moving in herds!'

[/Dr. Alan Grant]