Please remove Vehicle seat swapping. - Page 4

Littleman · 2012-07-17, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Most of the vehicles ate not designed with shared compartments, especially vehicles like the Lib, Gal, or tanks. I'm not talking about a mini-van here.

... In Planetside LIVE.

Planetside 2's tanks don't seem to have multiple entry hatches indicating compartmentalized stations within the tank. If we're going to even remotely expect some form of realism in our game, then it makes sense to expect the interior of our tanks to be set up similarly to how we build our tanks today. Or hell, a reasonable expectation with the tech available in the 2800's, it really should be as easy as flipping a switch.

The liberator and galaxy could very well have a similar connected setup. The practicality of trusting the craft to pretty much fly itself is another matter.

And as others have pointed out, there IS a timer on seat switching, with associated certifications to reduce the timer, but no proof of completely negating it, nor how long the base or fully certed switch takes.

I'm fine with seat switching. If someone moves to their secondary turret, they forfeit movement control, and in my mind, that trade off is never worth the specialized turret when in the kill zone. Sitting ducks are easy to pick off, no matter how heavily armored.

EisenKreutzer · 2012-07-17, 04:58 PM

I try. ^^

Aurmanite · 2012-07-17, 04:59 PM

To quickly address the generational comment... I would love to have someone point out which FPS's from the first generation that weren't session based, and all of the non session based shooters since.

EnderGraff · 2012-07-17, 05:01 PM

To clarify something, when a pilot swaps seats to, lets say a gunner position in a lib, wouldn't the plane begin to descend rapidly, as if there was no pilot at all?

In which case, if an individual wanted to do a lame tactic such as soloing with a lib and switching seats to drop bombs, the plane would be at a huge disadvantage.

The argument for full crew= full firepower has been made several times in this thread. Yet what everyone here still fails to understand is that even if seat swapping is allowed, the philosophy of full crew full firepower is still true! One man cannot fire all weapons (100%) at once, seat swapping or not. It takes 100% of the crew to fire 100% of the weapons in a vehicle.
Logic.

Gandhi · 2012-07-17, 05:15 PM

I think seat switching should be in, but it should always have a delay of some kind. Whether it's 5 seconds or 1 second when fully certed isn't so important, but it has to be there. The extra versatility it gives undermanned vehicles is just too powerful otherwise, the benefits far outweigh the cost of not being able to deal with two targets at the same time.

Of course it's always better to have a fully crewed vehicle regardless, but with instant seat switching it's really not that much better. You could probably do just fine firing all the rounds in one gun and switching to the other while it reloads, especially in an aircraft like the Lib. A 2 or 3 second delay each time makes a world of difference and goes a long way to making a fully crewed vehicle a more attractive option.

Ruwyn · 2012-07-17, 05:27 PM

In theory when you exit a vehicle you will magically appear at different locations near the vehicle, determined by which seat you were in. So there really isn't a reason why this could not and should not work in reverse.

Pressing G to enter a vehicle then 1-5 to switch to the seat you want seems overly simplistic. I mean I should be able to get in and get right on the gun I want or a passenger spot.

Landtank · 2012-07-17, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by EnderGraff

To clarify something, when a pilot swaps seats to, lets say a gunner position in a lib, wouldn't the plane begin to descend rapidly, as if there was no pilot at all?

In which case, if an individual wanted to do a lame tactic such as soloing with a lib and switching seats to drop bombs, the plane would be at a huge disadvantage.

The argument for full crew= full firepower has been made several times in this thread. Yet what everyone here still fails to understand is that even if seat swapping is allowed, the philosophy of full crew full firepower is still true! One man cannot fire all weapons (100%) at once, seat swapping or not. It takes 100% of the crew to fire 100% of the weapons in a vehicle.
Logic.

The OP seems intent on ignoring this fact, and it is a FACT.

KTNApollo · 2012-07-17, 05:34 PM

Anybody that wants seat hot-swapping has been brainwashed by games like BF3. Hot-swapping needs to be removed for the same reason enter/exit animations need to be added (or atleast a delay upon entering/exiting).

Scenario

I'm getting shot down in my Liberator with only one friend in it. He swaps to the tailgun in order to deal with the pesky Scythe on my tail. He takes it down. We need repairs. He swaps back to the bomber seat, eliminates some ground forces, allowing us to land. We land, hop out, and start repairing. Before we're done repairing a Magrider shows up and starts lobbing us with hits. We instantly hop inside (no enter animations, no delay) and take off into the air. My friend accidentally hopped into the tailgun, but no worries, he hot swaps into the bomer seat and destroys the Magrider.

What I have posed above is my main concern about no enter/exit animations and hot-swapping.

bullet · 2012-07-17, 05:39 PM

I don't see this as a realistic or fantasy issue, it more along the lines of imbalanced.

This is a situation I just thought of:
Enemy A is being shot upon by Enemy B. Enemy A notices that there is an unmanned tank sitting 10 meters away so he runs over to it and has 100x more armor and 100x more fire power instantly. If there was some delay to the entering or start up of the vehicle, Enemy B could have a chance to escape or prepare himself for the encounter. Since there is no delay, enemy A blows enemy B away and walks/drives away.

Edit: More so an enter/exit issue, but same general idea applies to be equipped for any situation.

Landtank · 2012-07-17, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by KTNApollo

Anybody that wants seat hot-swapping has been brainwashed by games like BF3. Hot-swapping needs to be removed for the same reason enter/exit animations need to be added (or atleast a delay upon entering/exiting).

Scenario

I'm getting shot down in my Liberator with only one friend in it. He swaps to the tailgun in order to deal with the pesky Scythe on my tail. He takes it down. We need repairs. He swaps back to the bomber seat, eliminates some ground forces, allowing us to land. We land, hop out, and start repairing. Before we're done repairing a Magrider shows up and starts lobbing us with hits. We instantly hop inside (no enter animations, no delay) and take off into the air. My friend accidentally hopped into the tailgun, but no worries, he hot swaps into the bomer seat and destroys the Magrider.

What I have posed above is my main concern about no enter/exit animations and hot-swapping.

That is such an unrealistic scenario, and I would be my left nut that it will never happen. If the scythe pilot and the mag pilot both die in that scenario then they deserve to die horrible, violent deaths.

Although I do like how it's only Vanu dying!

As for the more recent post: why didn't you kill the guy before he got in the tank?

Stardouser · 2012-07-17, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by bullet

I don't see this as a realistic or fantasy issue, it more along the lines of imbalanced.

This is a situation I just thought of:
Enemy A is being shot upon by Enemy B. Enemy A notices that there is an unmanned tank sitting 10 meters away so he runs over to it and has 100x more armor and 100x more fire power instantly. If there was some delay to the entering or start up of the vehicle, Enemy B could have a chance to escape or prepare himself for the encounter. Since there is no delay, enemy A blows enemy B away and walks/drives away.

There is a delay. The tank is 10 meters away, and there is a physical transit time to run there, and enemy B can kill him before he gets there, or head for cover when he sees enemy A headed to it.

Also, how often would there be a vehicle just sitting there? This isn't Battlefield where they spawn randomly on the map. And a lot of people are talking about locking their vehicles to squad only.

Klockan · 2012-07-17, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by bullet

I don't see this as a realistic or fantasy issue, it more along the lines of imbalanced.

This is a situation I just thought of:
Enemy A is being shot upon by Enemy B. Enemy A notices that there is an unmanned tank sitting 10 meters away so he runs over to it and has 100x more armor and 100x more fire power instantly. If there was some delay to the entering or start up of the vehicle, Enemy B could have a chance to escape or prepare himself for the encounter. Since there is no delay, enemy A blows enemy B away and walks/drives away.

Edit: More so an enter/exit issue, but same general idea applies to be equipped for any situation.

Since you can also see the tank sitting around there you know that if he runs for it he can enter it instantly. If you didn't know that he could enter it instantly you would have a point, but as it is the game got full information so you know that he can become a ton more dangerous by running to and entering the tank.

Ruwyn · 2012-07-17, 05:43 PM

that's certainly not unrealistic to think that would happen. I personally can't wait for an outfit to set up a dozen tanks and put up a video of a shell game in the middle of an infantry battle. That shit will be hilarious. exit/enter instantly back and forth down a line of tanks.

PoisonTaco · 2012-07-17, 05:47 PM

How about a compromise? Keep seat swapping, but have a quick cooldown preventing you from switching back and forth all the time. Have it something like 5-10 seconds. Or alternatively you could make it so it takes that long to switch into the seat.

That way if you need to use your 2nd gun to handle an enemy, it leaves you vulnerable in the other area. You still have the ability to switch seats and respond to different situations, but you have to be careful not to leave yourself exposed.

It would work for aircraft that way because you couldn't just switch back and forth from the pilot seat to the gunner seat in a Liberator without it falling like a rock.

bullet · 2012-07-17, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

There is. The tank is 10 meters away and enemy B can kill him before he gets there, or head for cover when he sees enemy A headed to it.

Also, how often would there be a vehicle just sitting there? This isn't Battlefield where they spawn randomly on the map. And a lot of people are talking about locking their vehicles to squad only.

You're saying you wouldn't TRY to kill the guy as hes running to it? You would instantly GTFO?

This is going back to PS1 and could be easily replicated in PS2. You have to get out of your vehicles to cap points. In PS1, bases were littered with empty vehicles during a base cap. In PS2, vehicles could be sitting around unmanned while the infantry are inside capping points. Yes, a lot of people will have driver's position locked to squad/self. Why would people lock ALL the seats? The general player doesn't care who guns their tank.