Anyone having fun with ESFs? - Page 4

Whiteagle · 2013-05-18, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Jax Blake

LoL, come roll TR on connery and fly against the NC, then come here and tell me how many devil dogs shot you down with their lock ons. I'm not talking a couple pilots as you guys are, I'm talking about 4-6 guys all with lock ons. Snafu often uses the afterburner because it's the only chance he'll ever have of getting away from so many, I enjoy it when they follow him right back into my double burster with extended ammo.

Ah, that's why he calls them Skill-less, they are actually USING them en-mass on Connery!

phungus · 2013-05-19, 04:09 AM

Sythe still seems pretty fun on Connery. Spending my time flying with A2Am prowling around as a lone wolf and causing people like Snafu to rage about "skilless weapons" that for some reason take around 100 hours to get decent with and no one seems to use because they find them impractical. At least something good came out of this thread, Snafu's whining got me to go try my sythe's A2Am again and they are pretty fun.

I can't really get into my mosquito anymore though, just seems much more difficult in the hover fights dogfighting has become since everyone has learned to use analog throttle.

Sunrock · 2013-05-19, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Ah, that's why he calls them Skill-less, they are actually USING them en-mass on Connery!

Not really. It's because he is a sore looser. Who here would QQ all over the forums if they get killed in a tank by 6 HA lock on with skep launchers? No one. But it's all legit when you fly ESF?!

KesTro · 2013-05-19, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Not really. It's because he is a sore looser. Who here would QQ all over the forums if they get killed in a tank by 6 HA lock on with skep launchers? No one. But it's all legit when you fly ESF?!

Everyone QQ's about that. I want to like you Sunrock but you come off as really aggressive. SnafU has a point about A2AM being skilless and he's right. But the game needs that skilless weapon for players who aren't pro's in the air to even stand a chance. A good pilot is and always will be better off with the rocket pods to be at maximum efficiency.

There's an extra credits video that touches on a similar topic to this that was linked to be with the great shotgun bitching of March, and here it is:

phungus · 2013-05-19, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

Everyone QQ's about that. I want to like you Sunrock but you come off as really aggressive. SnafU has a point about A2AM being skilless and he's right. But the game needs that skilless weapon for players who aren't pro's in the air to even stand a chance. A good pilot is and always will be better off with the rocket pods to be at maximum efficiency.

There's an extra credits video that touches on a similar topic to this that was linked to be with the great shotgun bitching of March, and here it is:

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill - YouTube

A2Am don't work like that, takes forever to learn how to use them effectively. They are much more noob unfriendly then rocket pods, which are ready to go for a newbie out of the box.

I think A2Am should be an easy to use weapon for newer pilots, but that's just not how they work. They do let people like me who are more in the 80 percentile range in SPM be much, much more effective at A2A, puts people like me more on an even level with those who have impeccable aim (like Snafu, which is really Snafu's strength as the guy doesn't seem to miss), but don't for a minute think a new pilot is going to grab A2Am and do anything but get slaughtered. I think that's what Snafu means by skillless, as A2Am severely level out the playing field in the A2A game at the top end, and they also are uselss for good players with near perfect aim so players like Snafu have no use for them which from his perspective probably only adds insult to injury.

KesTro · 2013-05-19, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by phungus

I think that's what Snafu means by skillless, as A2Am severely level out the playing field in the A2A game at the top end, and they also are uselss for good players with near perfect aim so players like Snafu have no use for them which from his perspective probably only adds insult to injury.

And that is exactly my point, it levels the playing field.

Sunrock · 2013-05-19, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

Everyone QQ's about that. I want to like you Sunrock but you come off as really aggressive. SnafU has a point about A2AM being skilless and he's right. But the game needs that skilless weapon for players who aren't pro's in the air to even stand a chance. A good pilot is and always will be better off with the rocket pods to be at maximum efficiency.

There's an extra credits video that touches on a similar topic to this that was linked to be with the great shotgun bitching of March, and here it is:

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill - YouTube

Well complain about dying in any game for any legit kill, that is no cheat was used, are for cry babies and noobs. Pointing out that something is unbalanced is an other thing but using the argument that some one can kill you with weapon A easily is not an argument for balance thats just a complaint for e-brat noobs. Thats what all the CoD kids too. If you want to argue balance you need to compare weapon A to weapon B and stick with the statistics and examples of it's use.

Now if we look at the statistics of the A2AM it's balanced. It is a little bit easier to aim but still need some basic skill to use on the other hand has higher TTK then any of the main ESF guns.

Now when some one complains that 6 players gang up on him using a powerful tactic it's not because the game is unbalanced but because he put himself in that position.

PS: Yes I know I can come off as a bit aggressive to sensitive people. But In reality I just don't bather to scourger coat things to avoid hurting some ones feelings. I give it strait up as that is usually most effective to get the point across. I just assume we are all hardens warriors here and not some girlie girls, or are we?

snafus · 2013-05-20, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Well complain about dying in any game for any legit kill, that is no cheat was used, are for cry babies and noobs. Pointing out that something is unbalanced is an other thing but using the argument that some one can kill you with weapon A easily is not an argument for balance thats just a complaint for e-brat noobs. Thats what all the CoD kids too. If you want to argue balance you need to compare weapon A to weapon B and stick with the statistics and examples of it's use.

Now if we look at the statistics of the A2AM it's balanced. It is a little bit easier to aim but still need some basic skill to use on the other hand has higher TTK then any of the main ESF guns.

Now when some one complains that 6 players gang up on him using a powerful tactic it's not because the game is unbalanced but because he put himself in that position.

PS: Yes I know I can come off as a bit aggressive to sensitive people. But In reality I just don't bather to scourger coat things to avoid hurting some ones feelings. I give it strait up as that is usually most effective to get the point across. I just assume we are all hardens warriors here and not some girlie girls, or are we?

Sunrock I have very few deaths related to the A2AM. Getting killed by them is not so much the problem as my main issue is they more or less ruin any fun air engagements. It's the same scenario with G2A launchers as they don't get tons of kills. But put every pilot with a lock on tone on the defensive or run home mode. What my main complaint as kestro made more clear is it closes the skill gap required to be useful in the air. Now as Phungus also said to be really lethal with the A2AM the pilot needs to know when to fire during a fight to be most effective. And that part can hold truth during a 1V1 maybe, but not during a larger dogfight.

My "bitching " comes from giving players a weapon system that requires the minimal skill to make a large impact on a dogfight. He may have something that can be easily avoided and sometimes unreliant. But it becomes much, much harder to avoid once already engaged in a dogfight against a good pilot. It changes the dynamic of the fight by forcing the enemy pilot to now avoid that missile damage. I am totally fine with being beaten by enemy players who out fly me and gun my ass down. But when a BR 1 can buy these launchers and just hover outside a dogfight spamming missiles it levels that field a wee bit to much.

Is it to much to ask that players have to at least keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule during the missile flight? Make pilots who want to be A2AM ESF require some kind of ability to be effective. I love flying in this game man and the skill level to be really success full with it has kept me in the game. But It really bothers me to see people so strongly support a feature that strips away a lot of that skill. Maybe I'm being an Elitist ass hole? But I would rather be that D-bag then sit back and watch a game I love slowly turn into a mindless Window licker friendly environment with auto tracking weapons at every corner.

Fenrys · 2013-05-20, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

And that is exactly my point, it levels the playing field.

You need to invest a lot of certs into A2A missiles range and lock on time. There are probably more fun things to spend certs on if you think you're bad at flying.

snafus · 2013-05-20, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Fenrys

You need to invest a lot of certs into A2A missiles range and lock on time. There are probably more fun things to spend certs on if you think you're bad at flying.

Certing into the upgrades will improve them but even at stock they serve a purpose of giving you a easy mode weapon. If an enemy ESF is predisposed in a dogfight all you have to do is line him up and wait for the beep. Even if your missiles are loosed or not that pilots behavior goes into a more defensive one due to him combating the lock on. People get so focused effectiveness based on lethality. When that simply lock on can everything you need to turn a fight.