Pheonix fix. Already posted in Official. - Page 4

LLMerc · 2003-04-15, 08:55 AM

I just wonder what will happen when the jackhammer is fixed, and sudenly NC has a balanced close range capability with a vastly unbalanced long range one ...

LesserShade · 2003-04-15, 09:25 AM

^That's what I'm wondering too. As it stands it seems that TR and NC are pretty balanced. The worst thing in the world is having to storm those damned NC towers where the phoenix missles are being fired from inside the top floor door and the snipers and gauss users keep you from getting remotely close.

It all works out when you finally DO get inside because then it's just a frag fest so long as they don't have an AI max running around.

Anyway, as far as the phoenix goes, while it's great for stand offs, I wouldn't trade my striker for it ever. The striker as it stands absolutely nullifies any air threats with little to no effort from me, calling a reaver a "minor annoyance" would be a gross exaggeration. At medium range outside MAXs are striker fodder, especially VS max when they jump because it's easier to get lock then :/

Anarion · 2003-04-15, 11:21 AM

the beta boards with respect to arguements over this kind of thing are getting sad.. It's just a horrendous snipe fest, and even some of the more insightful posts are turned into so much whining.. On both sides.. Pheonix lovers and haters are guilty of the exact same behaviour.. I notice here, its much more civilized, but I expect more quality here, so its not surprising.. I've toured through all the factions so far, and have seen the good and bad of both..

1) The Vanu are in need of help, and the devs know that, and are certainly looking to bring them up to speed in certain areas, which can only be a good thing..

2) Gauss.. I've played more NC than the other factions, so I've had more experience with this one than others.. Generally I don't think its overpowered, but having being shot BY it as well, I'll admit its range could be pulled back a bit, or even dull the accuracy at extreme ranges a bit..

3) Chaingun/Pheonix arguements..

Ok firstly, all this talk about EVERY NC having one is a lie.
All this talk about EVERY TR having a CG is a lie..
That or you've bought solidly into the hype that's going on in the beta boards..

Yes, many do use them, but not everyone, not even close.. Last night on Lagssor, big fight over an NC facility.. Terrans overrun it..
I actually went around and counted after all the whining that went on in the beta boards. 7 NC had pheonixes, out of 28 that I counted on the ground and walls.. Definitely NOT everyone..
Same thing goes for the terrans.. Sure, the first few through the gates has chainguns, but not everyone.. In fact it seemed that maybe the first 4-6 terrans had chainguns, followed in by MAXs, and light troops with cyclers..
I can guarantee more NC and TR had bolt drivers in that fight than had chainguns and pheonixes combined..

As people have been saying here already so far those two factions are pretty well balanced.. The long distance mauling NC may give the TR, is certainly equalled out by the close range slapping you give the NC once we get up close and personal..

On top of that, there's another thing that's always bothered me about the whole "pheonix sucks" debate.. One of the times I've used the pheonix was guarding an air tower from the roof (near Honsi I think..).. Sure enough a lone Terran MAX comes bounding across the bridge.. 1, 2,3, 4 missles let go in succession, dead MAX just as he gets to the door.. Unfair! I hear you say.. Sure enough same MAX comes bounding across the bridge a few minutes later from the west.. 1,2,3,4, dead again.. Granted at this point I'm out of missles but rearming isn't an issue.. This scenario happens 3 times before it stops, and tactics change..
Sure enough I look North of the tower and there's a huge hill with trees ringing the bottom.. Cross the bridge as a MAX and veer right you head straight for the tower through relatively open ground, left, you head around the hill, can go over it and then through the trees to the tower.. In a situation like this, is it still that the pheonix is so bad, or that the MAX player isn't thinking?

The pheonix may be the AWP of planetside (though "Pheonix as AWP" is a misnoemer, as it doesn't kill with one shot), but that makes the chaingun the "SOF2 style Autoshotty" of planetside.. And both could be considered unbalanced for different reasons.. Personally I think they're both balanced just fine, and I certainly don't bemoan the TR's abilities to storm/hold a base once they're frimly entrenched with their heavy weapons..

My opinions only of course, but I think people are carrying the whole arguement to inane heights on the beta boards..

LesserShade · 2003-04-15, 11:36 AM

^good points.

Overall I don't think it would be a bad idea if AV weapons were 4 point certs like Heavy. That would cut down on phoenix and striker use which I think is important.

Well, we've heard enough complaints about phoenix artillery use, so I wont delve into that subject.

As far as the striker goes (this is a point that PecosBill has brought up on the beta forums recently). Two TR with strikers outside a base essentially turn that bases entire SOI into a no-fly zone. This makes the AA Max completely pointless. Why anybody would spend 2 cert points for an AA max that doesn't really accomplish anything because for 1 more cert point they could have a semiautomatic homing death rocket that can level anything in the air way more effectively then the max, it can do it in reinforced armor so it can carry a cycler or even a chaingun for infantry purposes, and the missiles also lock on to turrets, vehicles, and MAX.

I think the 4 point cost for the chaingun makes a lot of people like myself shy away from using it. The AV cert however is very strong for TR and NC, 3 of my characters are certed in AV for instance.

As always, the VS need work.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-04-15, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by LLMerc
I just wonder what will happen when the jackhammer is fixed, and sudenly NC has a balanced close range capability with a vastly unbalanced long range one ...

If the Jackhammer sees a significant improvement, then the Phoenix should take a nerf.

If the Minichaingun take a nerf, then the phoenix should take a nerf.

The Phoenix should not take a nerf with no adjustment to hte Heavy assault weaponry.

P.S. I would have no problem seeing the AV weaponry cost 4 cert points.

Anarion · 2003-04-15, 12:16 PM

I would see no problem with making a weapon like the pheonix more expensive cert wise, make you think twice about how much you really use it... Which also brings up another small point, one reason so many people use these weapons is that everyone in beta has been starting at BR10.. Technically I can see 100 terrans cross a hill, quit, relogon, create a new character with a pheonix and be back in in under 10 minutes.. If you have to pay to play, or work your way there from scratch, you may be less likely to jump at it because now you can't instantly have it anymore..

still bringing the pheonix in line with the chaingun certcost wise seems only fair..

Originally posted by LesserShade
^good points.

Overall I don't think it would be a bad idea if AV weapons were 4 point certs like Heavy. That would cut down on phoenix and striker use which I think is important.

Headrattle · 2003-04-15, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Anarion
Which also brings up another small point, one reason so many people use these weapons is that everyone in beta has been starting at BR10..

very good point there man. Maybe because they have the chance to do anything they want means they spam the pheonix or chaingun.

Lets wait and see what happens when everyone starts at level one