Trayvon Martin

[Baneblade]

Martin could have tried to get away after being shot.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Well I gotta say I care because there are lots of things that happen when you've got adrenaline pumping and overriding your "how do I do this completely 100% legally"

This has nothing to do with anything. Again, Zimmerman told us what apparently happened in the fight. We don't need to talk about adrenaline and any such nonsense.

I still don't understand how this makes a particular difference into whether he used proper judgement during the incident and within the confines of the law.

Did you listen to the recordings I linked to earlier? I honestly feel as though anyone who listens to those interviews, where the cops walk through the thing with Zimmerman, should tell people all they need to know. There is no surprise at all that the homicide investigator recommended charging Zimmerman with manslaughter. His story is totally fucked up, his claims unfounded, and he had no explanation why a mild mannered kid with no violent tendencies would abruptly attack him as he claims.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Wow. Look at the photos again. You've got an incredible imagination.

I agree, the body is like 5-10 feet from where Zimmerman was standing when explaining the incident.
Not to mention, when he was walking over there he even said "I think it was right about here."

"He wasn't on the exact spot! Guilty!"

[Saifoda]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

I just listened to the first audio tape you posted. You're right.

Zimmerman's reply on why he didn't identify himself as neighborhood watch to Martin, "It's not my job." That struck a chord with the Detective who replied "It wasn't your job to monitor him either."

• Detective: "Have you told this child you was neighborhood watch, we probably wouldn't be here right now."
  
• Detective: "Your had two opportunities to identify yourself as somebody who was not meaning to do him harm."
  
• Detective: "Problem is he perceives you as a threat he has every right to defend himself, especially when you reach into your pocket to grab a cell phone."

*all quotes from http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_1.mp3

Sorry Warborn, I had written up a reply and then my browser decided it was time to a take dump .


Unfortunately, the detective's "testimony" in this case (I only use quotes because he's not actually giving testimony in court) can very easily be argued as flawed; nowhere in the law is Zimmerman required to identify himself as a non-aggressor, and though following somebody is grounds for future legal action, if he is not making any threats it is not justifiable for self defense (Martin, that is). Furthermore, reaching into your pocket is a very murky area, with precedence on both sides (I'll try to find the links later -- they weren't in Florida though so might not hold up in court) claiming that it IS a reasonably threatening gesture, and that it is NOT a reasonably threatening gesture.


Again my big problem with the self defense case (Martin) is that, even though yes, Zimmerman did pursue Martin initially, Martin then pursued him after he left to return to his vehicle, making it an unnecessary escalation of force and negating legal self defense for Martin.



EDIT: Basically in my opinion they're both very much at fault. Zimmerman was not thinking clearly about his personal safety (he should not have pursued Martin, just reported it and went home or continued patrolling or whatever) and Martin most certainly (in my opinion) should not have pursued Zimmerman. Zimmerman was trying to do "his job" as neighborhood watch, Martin had a chip on his shoulder and apparently feeling scrappy.

We all have different opinions on this (and os OP said, it's a very polarizing issue) but I think one thing we can all agree on is that there are lessons to be learned here: If you're not a cop, don't do ANYTHING resembling what a cop would do, other than "observe/report" (and KNOW YOUR LAWS), and don't go looking for fights -- there are an estimated 200 million personally owned firearms in the US, and in Florida in particular you've got about a 1 in 20 chance of running into someone who's legally carrying.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

This is not the movies.

Oddly enough that was my point too. There is no reason to assume he died instantly, especially since that often doesn't happen. But then I didn't see the body.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Zolan

I agree, the body is like 5-10 feet from where Zimmerman was standing when explaining the incident.
Not to mention, when he was walking over there he even said "I think it was right about here."

"He wasn't on the exact spot! Guilty!"

It was around 30 feet away, actually. Go ahead and check Google Earth if you don't believe me. Draw a path from where you see Zimmerman in the reenactment to where they recovered his body, as in the pictures I showed earlier. Zimmerman's claim doesn't add up to reality.

That plus the mountain of other lies he's told, both to the detectives in the interrogation and to the court, makes it pretty apparent that this trial definitely needed to happen. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Oddly enough that was my point too. There is no reason to assume he died instantly, especially since that often doesn't happen. But then I didn't see the body.

The autopsy report is freely available. He was shot through the right ventricle. That's a part of your heart, for those unfamiliar with anatomy. Being shot through the heart does indeed result in instant death (although medically "instant death" is not literally instant and he was probably conscious for a matter of seconds.

Either way, Zimmerman himself says that Martin leaned back after the shot, said "You got me!", and then fell over dead. So, once again, we don't need to speculate about this because Zimmerman has told us that Martin died at roughly the same spot the alleged brawl took place.

[ziegler]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...etector-421395


Nobody has brought up that he passed a lie detector test with flying colors............

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by ziegler

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...etector-421395


Nobody has brought up that he passed a lie detector test with flying colors............

Lie detectors can be fooled. They're not court admissible for a reason.

[Saifoda]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

Lie detectors can be fooled. They're not court admissible for a reason.

From precedence set in 1923....

[Warborn]

And nearly 90 years later, we still haven't been able to find evidence that they work.

[Saifoda]

Originally Posted by Warborn

And nearly 90 years later, we still haven't been able to find evidence that they work.

Lol, oh science.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Lol, oh science.

Hey. I like science.

[Saifoda]

One of my goals in life is to pursue a Phd in science, and insist that people call me "Doctor Scientist"

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Lol, oh science.

Yeah I know, lol those people looking for "evidence" and "reproducible results" and so on. I called Jo Jo's Psychic Alliance last night and she assured me that JFK's ghost killed Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman is being compelled by the Illuminati to take the fall. I'm with Saifoda and The Insane Clown Posse on this one. Don't you scientists be telling me lies, getting me all confused about "facts" and "magnets" and so on.

[Saifoda]

Originally Posted by Warborn

Yeah I know, lol those people looking for "evidence" and "reproducible results" and so on. I called Jo Jo's Psychic Alliance last night and she assured me that JFK's ghost killed Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman is being compelled by the Illuminati to take the fall. I'm with Saifoda and The Insane Clown Posse on this one. Don't you scientists be telling me lies, getting me all confused about "facts" and "magnets" and so on.

Lol new sig line.