Planetside 2 Needs Prone

[ThermalReaper]

Star said it right, I read most of the thread and it's basically stew posting Battlefield 3 sniper/recon videos, people saying that it'll make visibilty impossible and camping very possible. However, I'm taking about the stream a lot because it's possibly the only video that showcases a good part of the game with a good number of players. And yes, I'm aware it's alpha. Isn't really a good example but it's the only one at the moment.

My problems with prone:
1)It is not needed. You have crouch. Why would you need prone? Battlefield bad company 2 didn't have prone and all the people I asked never asked for it.

2) Visibility would be ruined, especially in night(This is an assumption)Almost 90% of the kills and deaths I got in the 20 or so minutes I've played MW2, MW3, Black ops and BF3 combined on a console was by prone, either because their postion is already hard enough to hit, but because they have prone they are nearly impossible to hit other than a stray headshot(s) (and I might add the current kick of the according to the E3 showcase weapons could make this even harder.) or decreasing visibility by a huge margin. The most obvious example of this would be the night ops. Imagine finding a small team of classes that can't go prone, firing at them and finding out that the rest of their team is going prone on the ground(Obviously I'm talking about outdoors here.).

I know I just said the thread is full of reason 2. But it's a solid reason.
A good cover mechanic is silly as if you are in the middle of the battle, no amount of shrinking your butt on the ground will help you.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Stew

but when they got legions of exemples of games thats do not suport prone but still have many campers so its suposed to be clear thats prone a game mechanics isnt reponsable for the players attitude campers are campers

I concur. It's simply an attitude problem; I can't say that I experienced more camping in Battlefield or Arma than in other games, but it helped a lot to make infantry combat more diverse.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Algo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...4OgHdL0#t=680s

I watched it... shoot, belly flop, reload, pop up, rinse repat. If in trouble, hump medpack

Seriously, let the other guys argument your case, its better.

watch it compleatly and youll see thats iam actually trying to moove foward the most as possible did you notice iive alway have snippers shot around me in my 5.1 headset you feell them so yeah the video is call snipers are jerk because their was so many of them and actually they where not prone but stand up and crouch behind some crates lol look their

http://youtu.be/a3L04OgHdL0?t=13m51s

and you shall see thats iam ussing prone to maintain my rush trough their possition iam trying to make the spawn to switch back if you call me a campers in a death match with 64 players on this i just can say

lolllllllllllllll

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Algo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...4OgHdL0#t=680s



edit: also by the looks of it you're sitting next to a spawn.

i think it should be good for you to watch the whole video this is a DM with 64 players i cant controles the random respawn lol sometime people can pop up in front of you my personal goal was to make the spawn to switch back and i almost suceed

[McBane]

Originally Posted by ThermalReaper

My problems with prone:
1)It is not needed. You have crouch. Why would you need prone? Battlefield bad company 2 didn't have prone and all the people I asked never asked for it.

Just for the record: Bad Company 2 is not a "real" BF game (last one was BF2 and 2142). Ironically, I saw much more campers in Bad Company 2 than in other BF games with prone support.

[Algo]

So your point was, prone is ok in a random 64 player tdm with random respawns, i agree then.

[ThermalReaper]

Originally Posted by McBane

Just for the record: Bad Company 2 is not a "real" BF game (last one was BF2). Ironically, I saw much more campers in Bad Company 2 than in other BF games with prone support.

I've only played Bad company 2(and a bit of battlefield 2 but it was offline, although it was a blast) so I'm not sure if I should speak of this. Also in the servers I played in people only camp during base camping till one or two players capture the point on the edge of the map.and battlefield 2 played much better than battlefield 3 IMO

But still, there was no reason for adding prone unless there is airducts.(If there are airducts that you can sneak in, I approve of prone_

Edit: Also, most stealth games use crouching as sneak, and not prone.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Algo

So your point was, prone is ok in a random 64 player tdm with random respawns, i agree then.

No the point is prone is helpfull for situational stuff like having 1000 snipers bullet flying in your direction while you already try to focus on something , when you need to reload and their is no other cover than a 2 feet tall road block when their is only a tiny crate or barricade etc..etc..

Your head will be expose and you will die if their is no prone so the solution could be to kill myself as soon as i run out of amo ?

[Khrusky]

To try and progress this discussion, I want to make counter arguments to every point raised against prone and try and find which specific sub-point is the one which both sides disagree on.

Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER

It's a bad thing.

If there is prone then you just get K/D ppl camping far away with a sniper rifle and never moving. At least with no prone they r easy to spot so they have to keep moving.

Snipers aren't generally 100% accurate so normally you can realise there is a sniper watching the area without dying to them. Also snipers only have a limited number of locations they can be in due to the fact they have to be able to draw a direct line of sight. Of these possible locations there are even fewer that given sufficient cover to avoid being seen, even with prone. Additionally they'll typically have to be in their territory, further reducing the possible locations.

With a bit of thought it's not too hard to work out which few areas they could be in. We also have thermal scopes so it's very easy to check if the enemy are hiding in cover. Also you can watch for muzzle flare and listen to which direction the shot comes from. If they're not firing at you, they're not a problem!

Further, camping people are incredibly easy prey for aircraft and vehicles, which are involved in basically every battle in PlanetSide.

I think at one point they said they'd put a proximity sensor as a cert for the FS aircraft so that would offer yet another way to find camping enemies.

Basically identifying a target by sight is only one of a plethora of ways you could do so, thus adding prone only means you need to think a bit harder and use other methods, which I feel is a good and interesting addition of challenge and variety.

[Ieyasu]

Originally Posted by Stew

the solution could be to kill myself as soon as i run out of amo ?

sure. part of the storyline is that you respawn anyway and there is no permanent death.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Ieyasu

sure. part of the storyline is that you respawn anyway and there is no permanent death.

lol

[MadPenguin]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Why shouldn't heavy assault be able to go prone? Instead of designing machine guns to be hipfire only, design them to also allow prone. And even if machine guns can't be done that way, HA can still use other weapons that wouldn't prevent prone.

There has been some confusion here, i'm not saying HA shouldn't go prone. I was replying to some who suggested HA shouldn't be able to go prone, but LA and the other classes should

[Ieyasu]

well in all honestly PS2 isnt a round of Team Deathmatch where your dying gives the other team points towards their victory. out of ammo and out in bfe? take one for the team and lemming your way to a fully loaded weapon via spawn tube.

[Revanmug]

Originally Posted by Phellix

The problem with this logic is assuming defending a base is camping it, when in reality you're actually just defending it.

Camping would be attacking the spawn tubes and not destroying them. If you know what those are.

A camper is a player who sit in a specifique place for certain period of time. Camping in a online fps never made any difference if you are defending or attacking since there is not such thing in most fps.

You example is actually call Spawn killing.

Get your fact right.

[Algo]

Originally Posted by Ieyasu

well in all honestly PS2 isnt a round of Team Deathmatch where your dying gives the other team points towards their victory. out of ammo and out in bfe? take one for the team and lemming your way to a fully loaded weapon via spawn tube.

Or, you know, make friends to play with you, i know it's hard for some tho.