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View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as? | |||
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic | 151 | 70.89% | |
Catholic | 21 | 9.86% | |
Protestant | 24 | 11.27% | |
Jewish | 5 | 2.35% | |
Muslim | 2 | 0.94% | |
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) | 10 | 4.69% | |
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-06-04, 10:42 PM | [Ignore Me] #661 | |||||||
E. Because of God
I won't bother trying to convince you that your belief had anything to do with your survival, or bother bringing up the millions of people that it did and does fuck all for, or even that people with conflicting beliefs to yours have done far more impressive feats of survival. The interface of the mind and body is a mysterious thing, but there is far more proof that the body is a subject to the will of the mind than there is that your god is real. So it is entirely possible your beliefs have saved your life, just not the way you think. |
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2012-06-05, 04:30 AM | [Ignore Me] #663 | ||
Lieutenant General
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Duke, as a passenger I once had a VW minivan drive into the side of our car and stop at 5 cm from my head.
I thank the Peugeot 806's structural and safety designers and testers for saving my life through a protective shell that worked and letting me walk away without any injuries at all. And yes, they're very likely French. 5cms works for me. And I'm a "hardcore atheist". (Non-)Religious people die in carcrashes, plane crashes, train crashes and shipping disasters all day... Schoolbus full of children drives into a tunnelwall because of a DVD being placed an act of god? No, then it's suddenly the driver to blame, instead of god punishing him and everyone in his bus for not paying attention to the road for a second. I mean this is your logic Duke, your god saying: "Hah that will teach him about responsibility now that he's dead and so are 40 children, he'll think twice of putting in a DVD while driving again! ... What do you mean, and what about those other 40 children? No no you got it backwards, my divine powers saved 5 with just some ripped off limbs and massive psychological trauma. SEE HOW I DID THAT? I'm awesome like that." Nice god. Lovely how your god loves just you and makes everyone else have horrible accidents. You just keep on believing your faith does fuck all to your survivability and give a "screw you" to all those other people who simply wern't as lucky as you to get through an incredibly unlucky situation you got in the first place. Ego-centric much? "You are not wrong" my arse. You're an incredibly selfish and self-important prick Duke, you know that? And someone really needs to put your back in your place. Oh, at the same time, god gives you "a screw you too" by means of all of the other people who never got a brain tumor. Please tell me Duke, what made you so special you needed a tumor? Why don't we all have brain tumors to survive? Why do some people never have bad things happen to them despite of living very "naughty" lifes? Why did you get a tumor you could barely survive in the first place Duke? God didn't like you to spread lies about the age of dinosaurs? You ever fapped in the bathroom and the Pope saw you do it? Isn't that awesome? You only looking at the positive bit as an Act-of-God-Special-Price-Just-For-You, while never looking at the negative part as the same thing. This is a form of bias you won't want to understand I'm sure, but you Duke, are full of it. And no Duke, we're not trying to be convinced and any sympathy I might have had for you suffering through that brain tumor itself (which is a horrible experience that nobody wishes on someone else) has been lost on you explaining it away by denouncing anyone who might have tried to do something for you directly over this harsh period (doctors, nurses, family, your own internal organs, etc) by giving all credit to your god. Talk about ego-centrism: you feel you're special enough to get direct help from a god while nobody else in the world does and while you don't acknowledge anyone else from helping you through this period. You know what Duke? You're an obnoxious, ungrateful, little twat when you do that. You don't have the power nor knowledge nor argumentation to convert anyone. Instead you just make religious people look extremely stupid, stereotypical and turn us off even further - convincing us more with every post that we're right and you're wrong and quite frankly, must have an IQ of below 80. So stop pretending anyone is interested in hearing your dribble because they respond and realise that the reason we're posting this is actually to see if there's anything in you that's salvagable, for e-sports and boredom. So far, that's a no. I don't think you're salvageable and you're becoming less sympathetic, more desparate, more non-sensical and less entertaining with every post you write. Maybe it's because you're drunk again. But maybe god wants you to be drunk so you can make a complete fool out of yourself on the internet for all the world to see. Who knows? You certainly don't, can't and won't know! |
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2012-06-05, 05:15 AM | [Ignore Me] #664 | |||
Sergeant
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Not a single argument put forward by a skeptic on this thread has had any reliance on humans having the answer to EVERYTHING. Last edited by MadPenguin; 2012-06-05 at 05:17 AM. |
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2012-06-05, 02:55 PM | [Ignore Me] #668 | |||
Lieutenant General
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Sympathy has nothing to do with it. This is a pretty standard "miracle"-story. On another forum, one guy once argued that god existed because he needed a job for months now. He hadn't been solliciting enough but he had prayed he'd find a job a couple times during that period of time. So he went to the mall and voila: there was a job vacancy. He applied and he actually got the job! Look! It's a miracle! (Look! It's sarcasm!) |
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2012-06-05, 04:31 PM | [Ignore Me] #671 | ||
I would be. How could someone not be? Of course you couldn't just hand-wave away the genocide and war and such, but certainly it could be seen as an understandable tragedy more than acts of pure malice from an otherwise healthy mind (as we presume he possessed).
Last edited by Warborn; 2012-06-05 at 04:32 PM. |
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2012-06-05, 07:36 PM | [Ignore Me] #672 | |||
Contributor First Sergeant
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And now i'll get back on topic... Let's just stop with this guys. There's no point in arguing; it's going nowhere. Edit :: I was listening to 99 Luftballons while typing that. Just realized that, lol
__________________
NivexTR - TR - 30/5 - -=The Black Sheep=- SYNxNivexQ - NC - 26/4 - [:::::SYN:::::] NivexVS - VS - 19/2? - SYNDICATEVS? http://www.twitch.tv/nivexq I don't broadcast much, but you never know Last edited by NivexQ; 2012-06-05 at 07:38 PM. |
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2012-06-05, 08:14 PM | [Ignore Me] #674 | ||
Lieutenant General
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No, of course it wouldn't change anything. People are responsible for their own thoughts and actions, whether they realise it or not.'
Whether they're capable of organizing the crime of the century or come online in a drunken stupor, that should give them enough capacity to do self-reflection, but they choose not to. |
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2012-06-06, 04:46 AM | [Ignore Me] #675 | ||||||
Lieutenant General
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So in your example, for me it depends if they knew they had a high stroke risk. Because then they made the choice to drive and take the risk to themselves and other people for granted. Similarly, it would matter to me whether or not the person at least tried to do something about it in the 200m drive towards those children if he still had any form of control and situational awareness. I understand where you're trying to go with the force majeure argument, but the case of Duke isn't about force majeure: if he has a certain amount of capacity of rationality to come up with a god design and get on the internet to write troll posts and do certain other things like analysing bits of PS2 (which he does, drunk or not) then he is capable of choice. If he is then provided with alternative input, it's his choice to use it or not. Duke here tends to ve very selective with the accepted input. Typically only input he likes or fears, meaning he is capable of data verification and that this is an active choice. Not force majeure.
That's a choice.
If you're capable of accepting god as an answer, then you're also capable of not accepting a god as an answer. The choice is whether or not you accept input for verification. There is no way input acceptance is mentally wired to the point you have no control over it at all. Reduced control doesn't mean no control. Reduced control still means you can at the very least try. If you don't try anyway, it doesn't matter to me if you're impaired or not: you choose not to try. If you're demented however and thus incapable of taking in any input whatsoever, uncapable of even the simplest of tasks, then it's something different. Duke however, is far removed from that point: he is capable of reading and comprehension, he simply doesn't want to because he wants what he believes to be true. He choses not to be objective and goes out of his way to make his subjective nonsense make sense to himself. He has enough self-awareness to realise he's had a tumor removed, he has enough mental capacity to come up with a reasoning why he survived (this reasoning did not exist prior to his survival, but was created after!). This indicates he does have the capacity to reason, whether it is diminished or not. And since it's a choice and he is thus in at least a bit of control, his current behaviour is something I'll never have any increased sympathy or respect for.
Thus it's not silly, what I find silly (and not increasing sympathy) is someone who automatically dismisses an argument based on the reasoning "oh Hitler argument, thus can be ignored". For that, is a choice: to be biased about such an argument or not. Choose bias: lose/not increase sympathy. Choose to evaluate (even semi-)objectively: increase in sympathy. |
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