Trayvon Martin - Page 47

Figment · 2012-07-18, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by ziegler

Really? Where's the outrage for the kids killed in the ghettos every single day? ....if I was taking a wild guess...you arent as outraged about those, because it wasnt a white-hispanic accused of doing the killing, it was just another black kid killing a black kid and that's ok, cause there's no way to express your hatred of white people when that happens.

Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat

smdh.

I'm just suprised how open minded people claim to be...and then they automatically assume that a man is guilty based on circumstantial and incomplete evidence.

Ziegler, read WGTs comment and then wonder if your claim of not being outraged by the other thing holds any truth.

Btw, I don't really proclaim to know what happened there, basically what WGT said. However, the stronger case, from what I've seen, suggests Warborn's side to be correct. I do think Warborn was early at his conclusions and strawmanned Zimmerman's intensions here and there, but he doesn't have a completely baseless opinion on this case given the available evidence doesn't set Zimmerman in a shining beacon of light with angels singing quietly in the background.

In the end, it looks to me like a non-premeditated murder, stemming from self-fullfilling black hoodie stereotype paranoia, an overgrown sense of vigilantism and some slight self-importance and amateurism, bad gunlaws and of course a piss-poor social-economical situation for black people that leads to that stereotype paranoia.

Pre-meditated racial murder? No. Intended murder? No. Manslaughter? Probably. Racial profiling and stereotyping involved in the incident? Yes, but probably not entirely conscious or intended (but intuitive). Self-defense? Depends on what transpired and who felt most threatened by who and therefore made the first move. To me stalking would however seem threatening. Instigator of incident? Zimmerman on all counts. Could either have made moves to prevent the event from escalating to a gunshot? Most likely yes, considering Zimmerman had the gun, he's most responsible for this.

Unfortunate and unwanted incident and coming together of circumstances for all involved? Definitely.

Thing is, one guy is dead and he wasn't the instigator of the incident.

Warborn · 2012-07-18, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat

I'm just suprised how open minded people claim to be...and then they automatically assume that a man is guilty based on circumstantial and incomplete evidence.

I don't know that he's guilty of murder 2 or manslaughter, I do know that he is responsible for shooting an unarmed kid on behalf of being a complete idiot. If it isn't illegal to be so foolish as Zimmerman that people die because you go charging down dark alleys searching for trouble whilst packing heat, it should be.

As for being open minded, watch his re-enactment, listen to the detectives rip him apart oh-so-gently in their interrogation, and read the judge's opinion when he granted Zimmerman the $1 million bail. There's keeping an open mind, and then there's being taken for a ride by a known liar who has told multiple versions of what happened the night he killed Trayvon and spun a yarn which makes zero sense.

Originally Posted by ziegler

Really? Where's the outrage for the kids killed in the ghettos every single day? ....if I was taking a wild guess...you arent as outraged about those, because it wasnt a white-hispanic accused of doing the killing, it was just another black kid killing a black kid and that's ok, cause there's no way to express your hatred of white people when that happens.

If I read a story about an adult killing an unarmed child with a pistol and walking away with no charges I find myself outraged. I am not sure what the skin colour of any of these people has to do with it, although I'll say the obvious here, if Trayvon Martin were a Natalie Holloway we wouldn't even be having this discussion as Zimmerman would be in jail serving a life sentence by now, or awaiting murder via the state if they do that stuff in Florida.

ziegler · 2012-07-19, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Btw, I don't really proclaim to know what happened there, basically what WGT said. However, the stronger case, from what I've seen, suggests Warborn's side to be correct. I do think Warborn was early at his conclusions and strawmanned Zimmerman's intensions here and there, but he doesn't have a completely baseless opinion on this case given the available evidence doesn't set Zimmerman in a shining beacon of light with angels singing quietly in the background.

There have been overt tones of racism concerning zimmerman. I deleted the rest of your post because I actually agree with you on most every count.

What's disgusting to me is the way they have portrayed Trayvon as a poor innocent child, using a picture of him at 13 when he was almost 18. I have two boys, one that just turned 18 and one that turned 13 earlier this year, puberty changes a boy alot in those 4 years. It was misleading sensationalism. They called Zimmer a White-Hispanic, why? Cause let's be honest, a mexican killing a black just aint that big a deal, kid or otherwise. But a white person...well now you got a story...I mean really....if we applied that to Obama, that would make him a White African American.....you can go back a few posts and see where I think he is guilty of manslaughter.. even though...if you look up some of the background about what was happening in the neighborhood, what Trayvon was in trouble for, that zimmer probably did have that gut feeling the man he saw was suspicious. I wont say bad judgement on his part, when you get older, you understand or learn that more oft then not, that bad feeling you get just by looking at people, is right more than it is wrong. But over reacted definately and it led to a death. That is man slaughter. But this whole story of he hunted down a poor innocent black kid doesnt play out to me.

Stand your ground doesnt apply in this case. That has already been ruled out I do believe. The purpose of SYG is because of what was told to me by a DA in TN....and I am not exaggerating one bit on this. We were in court for my kid getting jumped and in a fight. He was charged with simple battery as well. When I questioned the DA he said because my son didnt walk away he had committed a crime. Obviously I was confused, and asked, so wait...lt's illegal for you to defend yourself? His answer....In Tn, if you punched me in the face, I have a legal obligation to turn and walk away.
I shit you not. I was so tempted to test that theory. Stand your ground is meant to make that idiocy obsolete. Tn actually passed a similiar law later that year.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-07-19, 08:35 AM

Just a short update: Apparently, to Zimmerman, Trayvon's shooting was "God's plan".

So you guys have been right this entire time. Zimmerman didn't shoot Tryavon; God did. All we need to do is arrest that celestial fucker and get to the bottom of this.

Updates on the manhunt for God will be provided as they come in. Stay tuned.

Warborn · 2012-07-19, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by ziegler

They called Zimmer a White-Hispanic, why? Cause let's be honest, a mexican killing a black just aint that big a deal, kid or otherwise.

Maybe it's because his mom is Peruvian and his dad is white, and calling someone like that who has never lived in Mexico a Mexican would be pretty dumb.

I wont say bad judgement on his part, when you get older, you understand or learn that more oft then not, that bad feeling you get just by looking at people, is right more than it is wrong.

So it wasn't bad judgment and he in his vast 28 years of experience has spidey senses or something. Okay. So there's a kid dead by his hand, with no criminal record who was not in the process of committing any crime, but Zimmerman did not demonstrate bad judgment. Okay. Gotcha.

In Tn, if you punched me in the face, I have a legal obligation to turn and walk away.
I shit you not. I was so tempted to test that theory. Stand your ground is meant to make that idiocy obsolete. Tn actually passed a similiar law later that year.

That sounds completely wrong to me. Even in Canada we have something called "self defence", where you can use force to fight back if you're attacked, but only enough to allow you to prevent further injury. So if someone punched me in the face, I could drop them and it would be legal provided I didn't start beating on them while they were down and instead attempted to extricate myself from the situation. And if you kill someone in the process of defending yourself it's legal provided the force you use is considered justified in preserving your own life or preventing grievous harm. I cannot imagine Tennessee having more restrictive self-defence laws than Canada.

http://www.self-defender.net/law5.htm

TheDAWinz · 2012-07-19, 04:38 PM

A death is a death is a death. People die in a population of +7,000,000,000. You're insignificant, a resource. Your only goal is to further the Human race to the stars, and complete domination over the galaxy, than universe. I settle for nothing less.

**Malorn** · 2012-07-19, 08:49 PM

Meh.

Warborn · 2012-07-19, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Warborn only rages when it's white-on-black "crime" and ignores black-on-black crime. Just like everyone else.

A sensible thing to assert given how many threads we have about specific criminal cases on this forum.

Accuser · 2012-07-20, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

So it wasn't bad judgment and he in his vast 28 years of experience has spidey senses or something. Okay. So there's a kid dead by his hand, with no criminal record who was not in the process of committing any crime, but Zimmerman did not demonstrate bad judgment. Okay. Gotcha.

Fortunately for Zimmerman, Martin was in the process of committing the crime of assault and thereby the shooting was justified. One less violent offender on the street. I only wish all violent aggressors were dealt with so swiftly by their victims

Ninjacalypse · 2012-07-20, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Warborn only rages when it's white-on-black "crime" and ignores black-on-black crime. Just like everyone else.

The difference between black-on-black crime and black-on-white crime as you put it and the Zimmerman case is how often do you see the people that commit those crimes released right after they've killed someone or committed said crimes following a half-assed "investigation"?

It's most often the other way around, they're thrown in jail...after a half-assed "investigation" instead of being promptly released.

It's a classic strawman argument, i.e. "Well what about all these other crimes?"

Answer: When they were caught, they were promptly thrown into jail and prosecuted.

Accuser · 2012-07-20, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

Fyi: the kid walked away, then ran away from George Zimmerman.

Too bad this is not a death penalty trial, GZ needs a word with God.

So then Martin attacks Zimmerman unnecessarily, gets shot, and we live happily ever after right?

Figment · 2012-07-20, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Accuser

So then Martin attacks Zimmerman unnecessarily, gets shot, and we live happily ever after right?

Because the white guy with the gun is NEVER the attacker, it's always self-racism that makes one believe he might be the guy who was in the wrong!

Thank you Malorn for explaining that to us so clearly!

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-07-20, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Accuser

So then Martin attacks Zimmerman unnecessarily, gets shot, and we live happily ever after right?

I don't think you're fully up to speed on the details of the case.

Warborn · 2012-07-20, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Accuser

So then Martin attacks Zimmerman unnecessarily, gets shot, and we live happily ever after right?

You need to listen to the interrogation tapes, and watch Zimmerman's re-enactment. And when you watch the re-enactment, keep in mind that Martin's body was found ~50 feet down the path between the rows of houses, which was quite a ways away from where Zimmerman claimed the fight took place. And don't fail to notice how Detective Serino basically rips apart the claims Zimmerman made about being beaten severely, having his head repeatedly bashed against concrete, and being suffocated.

Also remember that Zimmerman lied about his finances and had his wife, who is now charged with perjury, lie as well. Read the judge's second bond decision where he remarks at how Zimmerman has attempted to deceive and manipulate the system at every opportunity.

In short, the only indication that an unarmed kid with no history of violence, who wasn't on any drugs, attempted to murder a strange near his own home using his bare hands is the guy who shot and killed him's story. And as it turns out, the guy who shot him has a violent past himself, and is a known liar.

Once you acquaint yourself with the case a little more you can let us know what you really think.

**Malorn** · 2012-07-20, 10:28 PM

Meh.