Command chat, and why it really needs to be changed. - Page 5

p0intman · 2013-01-13, 04:47 PM

I don't really care if its troll tactics or not. If goons take out bcp and thus the enclave with them... so be it.

NewSith · 2013-01-13, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

Strange. From my 18 man squad I send 6 to go cap Mani Biolab while the rest was in Andvari, holding the VS. They ended up getting the Biolab from the TR and we from the VS.

Smaller squads can't change the battles? Unlikely. Off course, if you suck at map assessment and your team mates can't be counted on, then that's the case.

That's ghosthacking, since I'm absolutely sure your six guys weren't countered by 15-20 more or less organized TR.

You see - I am not saying small squads are worthless and everybody who is in one is a noob. On the contrary 8 of my people successfuly turned the tide of a massive biolab fight by taking a tactical flanking meneuver around the SCU Shield Gen building and clearing it out, just yesterday or day before. However on a strategical scheme of things, small squads can do nothing, but ghosthack.

PS:

Code:

Strategy is the utilization, during both peace and war, of all of a nation's forces, through large-scale, long-range planning and development, to ensure security or victory. Tactics is the military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy.

In other words - Strategy = Plan, Tactics = Execution of the plan, in case you guys don't know the difference.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-13, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

PS:

Code:

Strategy is the utilization, during both peace and war, of all of a nation's forces, through large-scale, long-range planning and development, to ensure security or victory. Tactics is the military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy.

In other words - Strategy = Plan, Tactics = Execution of the plan, in case you guys don't know the difference.

That's one of those things I've never had a handle on. When does it change from one to the other?

Strategy: Take indar.
Strategy: Take the Crown.
Strategy? Gal drop on C, 2 squads. After 1 minute, bring the 2 full sunderers up to B. Hope the zerg charge up to A.
Tactics? Strategy? Gal 1 requires 8 Maxes and 4 engineers for initial assault. Gal 2 will follow behind in 30 seconds and needs 5 heavies, 5 medics and 2 infils.
Tactics? When assaulting 'C' proceed through western entrance. If you bail too early, try to ignore enemies and get to the western door ASAP.
Tactics: Max pairs provide perimeter security at chokepoints. Engineers behind, out of sight, ammo boxes on floor near point maxes, When damaged, maxes retreat to engineers for repairs, engineers stay hidden. Max pair #2 takes point. Rotate point MAX. Call for medic as required.
Tactics: Fire your weapon at enemy targets.

Is that about it?

NewSith · 2013-01-13, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Strategy: Take indar.
Strategy: Take the Crown.
Strategy: Gal drop on C, 2 squads. After 1 minute, bring the 2 full sunderers up to B. Hope the zerg charge up to A.
Strategy: Gal 1 requires 8 Maxes and 4 engineers for initial assault. Gal 2 will follow behind in 30 seconds and needs 5 heavies, 5 medics and 2 infils.
Tactics: When assaulting 'C' proceed through western entrance. If you bail too early, try to ignore enemies and get to the western door ASAP.
Tactics: Max pairs provide perimeter security at chokepoints. Engineers behind, out of sight, ammo boxes on floor near point maxes, When damaged, maxes retreat to engineers for repairs, engineers stay hidden. Max pair #2 takes point. Rotate point MAX. Call for medic as required.
Tactics: Fire your weapon at enemy targets.

There, explained to you. Once you're on the ground and "battlefield factors" come in play, it's tactics. Tactics would also be evasive maneuvers if the Galaxies get attacked while in air.

Assist · 2013-01-13, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

Assist I have seen your stream when you tried to prove you were not
cheating. Compared to you Buzz is a pro FPS player. Apparently when
you have those cheats turned off you are bad bad baaadd.

lol, I guess everyone has their fanboys.

Natir · 2013-01-13, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by igster

If my outfit leader behaved like that I'd put a bullet in his face and leave the outfit.

Like that guy in my image wants to? You know, that image is real harassment. If Buzz's trolling or calling someone "bad" equates to that, this community really needs to asses itself.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-13, 05:24 PM

@ Newsith Good to know. Now I know I'm a tactician and strategy is so easy a blind monkey could do it.

Back on topic, I'm all for freedom of expression and all that but there should be some hard limits on some things. Taunting people into suicide for example. (That Reddit founder guy, the british nurse who got tricked by a radio station, all the victims of facebook/twitter troll bullies)

The implementation of punishment (Justice) is tricky though. BCP is a well known figure and a target for this type of attention. I've heard MUUUUCH worse over prox chat in sanc from Randomnewb03, so is it really fair to ban BCP and let randomnewb03 get away with it?

For example, Prince Philip, peering at a fuse box in a Scottish factory, he said: “It looks as though it was put in by an Indian.” He caused a major uproar and lots of people got upset. But your average man-on-the-street will say much more ghastly things about [insert group here] and get away with it scott free.

Why are we picking up on BCPs comparatively mild actions more than instances of pure evil?

p0intman · 2013-01-13, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Natir

Like that guy in my image wants to? You know, that image is real harassment. If Buzz's trolling or calling someone "bad" equates to that, this community really needs to asses itself.

To be fair, I've never heard of that guy before. I don't even think he visits this forum, nor do I think he was a ps1 guy. I'm willing to actually brush that off as an edge-case from one of many newer cod/bf3 guys.

Assist · 2013-01-13, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

The implementation of punishment (Justice) is tricky though. BCP is a well known figure and a target for this type of attention. I've heard MUUUUCH worse over prox chat in sanc from Randomnewb03, so is it really fair to ban BCP and let randomnewb03 get away with it?

I wasn't picking on him. The topic is not about BuzzcutPsycho. People are trying to make it that, and it seems he has a lot of defenders of his actions, but the original point of the post is about how the command chat needs limitations so shit doesn't get taken too far.

Cyridius · 2013-01-13, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

I wasn't picking on him. The topic is not about BuzzcutPsycho. People are trying to make it that, and it seems he has a lot of defenders of his actions, but the original point of the post is about how the command chat needs limitations so shit doesn't get taken too far.

Originally Posted by Assist

It's funny too, if you watch his stream, he's easily the worst player I've seen streaming.

You made it about him.

Cyridius · 2013-01-13, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

A direct threat tweeted to Buzz, brush that off, nothing to see here. /s

From a highly respectable outfit filled with Vets aswell.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-13, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

I wasn't picking on him. The topic is not about BuzzcutPsycho. People are trying to make it that, and it seems he has a lot of defenders of his actions, but the original point of the post is about how the command chat needs limitations so shit doesn't get taken too far.

Yeah, but it's not about you either. You're not important.

Ok, since nobody can read between the lines of some posts and think for themselves, I'll hold your hand through it.

Smed has personally taken an interest in one man doing something mildly irritating.

Is that fair?

If I was to say something horrifyingly evil, racist, hurtful [insert adjective] over prox chat in sanc, I'd bet my nutsack that nobody would blink twice.

Is this the price of celebrity? Is BCP being punished by Smed for being a tall poppy?

If you start "cleaning up command chat" by getting rid of BCP, then you have to ban half of PS2. It's the thin end of the wedge. I know the first person to bring up anything Hitler related loses the debate, but:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

p0intman · 2013-01-13, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

A direct threat tweeted to Buzz, brush that off, nothing to see here. /s

it speaks just as bad about that specific player as buzzcut being buzzcut does about buzzcut. what im saying is: I've never seen him around and don't know him, thus im not sure pinning it on THIS community works as well.

am I wrong? is he a ps1 guy? I easily could be.

Assist · 2013-01-13, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

If I was to say something horrifyingly evil, racist, hurtful [insert adjective] over prox chat in sanc, I'd bet my nutsack that nobody would blink twice.

Is this the price of celebrity? Is BCP being punished by Smed for being a tall poppy?

If you start "cleaning up command chat" by getting rid of BCP, then you have to ban half of PS2. It's the thin end of the wedge. I know the first person to bring up anything Hitler related loses the debate, but:

If it was recorded, put on youtube, and then put to the attention of SOE then yeah I think you would get a warning. If you think it wouldn't be then you're misguided. Have you never played another game where individuals were banned for all the things you just listed? I remember in DAoC they did it without warning. People were upset at first, then after a month it was nice because it was cleaned up and everyone understood the limitations. They did it in WoW, DAoC, EQ/2, shit even Darkfall banned people for bad behaviour. League or Legends and DotA do the same thing now as well, hell they even ban people that are paid to play for years over it. It has nothing to do with 'celebrity' status. It has everything to do with it not being tolerated.

Buzzcut went on crying about how great he and his outfit is meanwhile slamming the rest of the outfits on the server. I was responding to that portion in my OP. If he wants to claim how great he and his outfit are then perhaps he needs to take a look in the mirror. He started taking personal shots at people, should no one give personal shots back at him then? If he wants to act like scum then he should be treated like scum. Ripping the guy for his voice? I mean come on, can you really defend that?
This has nothing to do with celebrity status. If someone was doing this on Waterson I'd record it and throw up for Smedley to see as well. Shit like this shouldn't be tolerated, regardless of who it is, end of story.

Saintlycow · 2013-01-13, 06:18 PM

For a while, I used to hate on Buzz. He does say questionable things, and i'm not to big of a fan of that.

This thread has made me realize a few things. As humans, we seem to be extremely judgmental. I mean, look at all the buzzcut hate. Tons of people bitch at him because he said something offensive. You're hating on a person because you took something they said out of context, and then remained adamant because you wish to see something wrong. On the internet, you don't really know the motive behind many things. For example, anyone could post "I hate Mexicans". Most of us would see this as racist, and wrong. However, the person who wrote this could have just had his dog run over by a person of Latin descent, and was angry enough to lose all self control and write that statement. Does that make the outburst any less wrong? No, it's still racist. Does this mean that we should forever label this person as a racist? No, because we don't actually know them. We don't know if this is their true self, on the thoughts of someone who is emotionally compromised.

This goes for defending a person as well. How many of you really know buzzcut? Hamma? The Smed? I don't know every intricate detail of their life, just like most of us with buzz or the Smed. Or Hamma (Jennyboo exempt

) It no longer becomes a debate about the person in question, but a battle to defend one's honor of being right or wrong.

We don't know what makes people do things, so don't go leaping to judge or defend them the instant something controversial happens. Maybe Buzz is all that people make him out to be. Maybe his mother has a grave illness, and this puts him on edge. Smed may actually be a jerk. He could have also had a shit day at the office (people hating on magriders and EQ : Next)

I don't know, you don't know, so don't go off half cocked.

Instead of instantly labeling people, take the time to tell them that what they said was offensive. When people are in a bad mood, they usually don't realize mistakes immediately. Give them the heads up. They will realize the errors of their ways

TL : DR - Humanity as a whole need to be less judgemental. As a community, we make ourselves to be mature, but we really need to step our game up, everyone.