Hotdropping - Page 5

Skepsiis · 2012-05-22, 11:27 PM

Ive seen the so called bailure issue mentioned a few times but quite frankly i never percieved it as a problem. At least not at the gameplay level.

It WAS faster to coordinate a group of mozies than a gal and could be versatile but i always felt like it was balanced by the limitation of armor, and therefore range and/or amount of equipment you could take with you. A galaxy drop allowed you to bring rexo armor and max units and had the added impact of dropping a squad together. Plus it was a cool thing to behold.

What i do agree with however is that using aircav from ps1 purely for transport to a drop point was a little odd and sort of against the spirit of what the galaxy was meant to be for.

I dont have a problem with people wanting to do this and i think it is completely the wrong attitute to take to effectively try and remove this playstyle by not allowing aircav to drop without taking damage or whatever other proposed solutions people have. I think the right approach would be to heavily incentavise the use of galaxies for the purpose of hotdropping troops onto targets so that it becomes the prefered and more effective option.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-23, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by elfailo

They came to the conclusion that Surge did nothing to cause warping, it merely made you warp slightly further.

So because it doesn't cause warping and only makes warping worse, it's okay?

Ohaunlaim · 2012-05-23, 05:24 AM

Not against hot-dropping pilots, sort of. But have always been against how hot-dropping pilots castrated Gal-drops.

There was only one drop type in PS1 so 12 mossy pilots dropping was much more efficient and flexible than 11 grunts and 1 gal pilot dropping. There is a solution which has been offered over and over again... Two drop types.

1. Galaxies would have the super-fast, instantly-ready-upon-landing, accurate-and-somewhat-control-able drop version...

2. and all pilots would have a slower, momentarily-stunned-upon-landing, inaccurate-and-uncontrollably drop version.

3. The improved (Galaxy) version would be available to pilots as a side-grade to their vehicles for those that are truly addicted to their hot-dropping escapades.

Baneblade · 2012-05-23, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by elfailo

At the time it was announced that it was going to be nerfed (for reasons SOE always lied about), some guys in 1CMM decided to test this. They came to the conclusion that Surge did nothing to cause warping, it merely made you warp slightly further (this makes sense if you understand what does cause it). They made a long post with their test results in a spreadsheet and I believe even a video. We tried to explain it all every way possible. It didn't make any difference, as people chose to believe what they wanted to believe even with the evidence that it was BS right in front of them.

SOE never made any attempt to fix the underlying problems with this game, and instead caved into pressure from some of the most delusional groups of players.

Who said Surge caused it?

It is pretty obvious the difference between surge and non surge in a stairwell. Surge sometimes going through the ceiling...

Mastachief · 2012-05-23, 09:14 AM

Hence why lots of "leet" players deliberately re-rolled female agiles.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-23, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Don't taunt me with rhetorical questions, fool. Figure it out for yourself.

Good to know that you knew your explanation was bullshit.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-23, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Describe how. Show me how clever you are.

You reason surgile wasn't responsible for warping, only made it worse, therefore it wasn't so bad.

In short, bullshit reason.

SgtMAD · 2012-05-23, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

You reason surgile wasn't responsible for warping, only made it worse, therefore it wasn't so bad.

In short, bullshit reason.

well they nerfed surgile and there was still warping all over the place,its a fact, not some idea the guy came up with,maybe if you would have played the game more you would know about all that.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-23, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

well they nerfed surgile and there was still warping all over the place,its a fact, not some idea the guy came up with,maybe if you would have played the game more you would know about all that.

The fact alone that surgile made the distance being warped worse should be reason enough, maybe if you would have thought about that more you would know that.

Baneblade · 2012-05-23, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

When your car won't start because the battery is empty, you don't put on new tires and hope it starts. You charge the battery.

More like, your car didn't quite win the quarter mile, so you put a turbo in it and strap a shotgun to the front.

Nerfing Surgile was the easier solution, even if it was just a band aid.

SKYeXile · 2012-05-23, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

When your car won't start because the battery is empty, you don't put on new tires and hope it starts. You charge the battery.

It was unfeasable to change the netcode at the time, hardware simply would not support a higher tick rate and changing to interpolations with its delay with such a low tick rate would create other issues that would be complained about equally asmuch as warping.

1cmm's research would have only compounded that surgile needed to go, with the netcode been unable to be changed at the time and surge contributing to a further warp, the sensible thing to do was obviously remove it. Also it obviously made some factions weapons superior to others, unbalancing the game.

Baneblade · 2012-05-23, 07:19 PM

What would you have done El Failo?

captainkapautz · 2012-05-23, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Restricting medium armor to medium assault weapons would have been a decent start (so no more JH+surge). Load-outs in PS2 can go a long way to balancing these things.

Holy crap, why didn't you use valid arguements before?

Baneblade · 2012-05-23, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Restricting medium armor to medium assault weapons would have been a decent start (so no more JH+surge). Load-outs in PS2 can go a long way to balancing these things.

Well, that idea was flamed into the ground... I remember.

SKYeXile · 2012-05-23, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

The surge-exacerbated warping happened specifically at the top of staircases and other slopes, they wouldn't have needed to increase the tickrate at all, it could have probably been solved entirely client-side. Jackhammer vs. MCG vs. Lasher could have also been solved separately.

I'm more concerned about the attitude some people have towards nerfing/buffing than any surge equivalent being in PS2, I'm not married to it.

This is true, the client predicting peoples locations in unpossible spots was defiantly a problem. but still with strafing, surge made you warp pretty far distances.

The rest really does come down to the tick rate though, when there is .2ms between packets, its .2ms where the client msut predict movment, it does an okay job when people can only move a meter between ticks, but when they're moving..what? twice that, a correction could wrap somebody upto 4 meters, further if you missed a packet.