Warning, very unpopular opinion! Why kill-cam desperately needs to return

[ShadoViper]

Originally Posted by Edfishy

I've wondered about just having the spinnable enemy character model (while remaining 'pinned') replay the last 5 seconds of movements that lead to your demise.

So you cannot see *where* he was, but you might be able to see what he was doing. "Oh he was crouched and waiting for me apparently before he came out threw some C4 on me!".

This would be good. However, everything else kill cam related is a NO from me.

Also good post tortoise.

[Rolfski]

TBH, I expected to be completely verbally slaughtered at this point but I've yet to see a decent argument against this highly unpopular point of view.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

TBH, I expected to be completely verbally slaughtered at this point but I've yet to make a decent argument for this highly unpopular point of view.

I fixed that for you so that its truthful now.

[Sledgecrushr]

Like earlier posted, I would like the death cam to turn the direction that you were killed from. It doesnt need the up close view, or even see your killer if they are well concealed. A ps2 kill cam should give a little help in which direction you were killed. But not totally give your opponents position away.

[PredatorFour]

Why o why do we need this ?? you say to help new players against camping ? thats ridiculous in a game the size of this and considering how open it is. Any 'camper' worth their salt would of moved position anyway by the time the 'noob' got back to the same point.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Why o why do we need this ?? you say to help new players against camping ? thats ridiculous in a game the size of this and considering how open it is. Any 'camper' worth their salt would of moved position anyway by the time the 'noob' got back to the same point.

So basically you're saying this game is already a doomed farm fest and SOE should declare this game as lost forever?

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

So basically you're saying this game is already a doomed farm fest and SOE should declare this game as lost forever?

So basically you're saying that the answer to zergs is a killcam?

You already admitted that a killcam will not change that in zergs.

Perhaps in smaller fights but why should every side be known where they are to the enemy if they find a good spot to get the drop and keep the enemy unaware of numbers in the area? A small squad can appear to be an army. Result of known numbers that appear to be more? Intimidation factor lost and other side storms in no longer afraid of being swarmed. It favors the attackers more then defenders and defending HAS to be done in this game at times.

If you want an idea of how many people there are in a building and want to know the locations then that's what the dart gun is for. Use it. Speaking of which, a killcam would make that less useful so another reason not to add it.

The way you argue your case is "look at who killed you. See their class. Know EXACTLY why you died" but we already get that. The only thing we don't see is the location and you want to be lazy and not make the effort to look for who killed you? Why not have a tank that automatically aims at the enemy while you're at it so you don't have to look around for armor?

[Emperor Newt]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

This becomes even worse because farming is still by far the most game ruining mechanic in the game.

True. But sadly this is not going away until progression is no longer tied to kills. But I doubt they will take the time to redesign the whole cert gain mechanic this "late" into the lifecycle. So farming, sadly, is most likely going to stay.

[GreyFrog]

Farming is a problem that Kill Cam won't solve. It's a terrible mechanic in a game where tactics matter. Your opponent not knowing how or where you are killing them from is a major factor in holding points and capping bases.

Just because KC tells you where and what your opponent is doing won't stop the farming. Most farms are on spawn rooms, the guys in that spawn room know where the enemy is.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Memeotis

Maybe have a kill-cam from level 1-15? After which it disables permanently.

I could actually live with this idea as a compromise. I would make it level 1-20 though (or one weekend of intensive playing). The game still needs a way better death screen for everybody though. I personally liked the BF3 screen.

Originally Posted by GreyFrog

Farming is a problem that Kill Cam won't solve.

Camping is a problem that Kill Cam won't solve.

For farming however, it becomes a risk vs reward game. You can rack up kills from your Prowler on that hill, overlooking that enemy Sunderer, but you know that if you don't stay mobile and move to another camping spot, you're going to be hunted down.

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

Kill-cams aren't necessary because this isn't an arena shooter where killing individual people matters. You're walking down the road, your head explodes, the kill-cam shows that the guy who shot you is hiding in the cliffs above. Okay. Who cares? He's just one guy out of a hundred enemies in that base. You won't even have time to get a vendetta against that guy because you'll be too busy getting killed by his 50 allies who are right in your face. Even if you did have the time to hunt this lone camper, the chances are that he'll have either moved or have been killed by YOUR 50 allies by the the time you've respawned anyway. It's hard to be "sneaky" in planetside because 1. almost all of your shots are tracers, meaning any shot you make is going to be seen by 20 enemies , and 2. every shot you make paints you on the radar. So if you cap one guy from a distance, congratulations, there's three enemy infiltrators aiming at you now.

It's a pointless mechanic for this game.

Kill-Cam is not meant as a personal vendetta machine because in that case you are correct. Kill-cam is meant as a personal awareness and feedback tool, giving you answers on those typical "What the hell killed me?" - situations, so you can learn from your mistakes. And for that, it is extremely useful.

Originally Posted by Taramafor

So basically you're saying that the answer to zergs is a killcam?

I never mentioned zergs.

I mentioned kill-cam as a tool:

• to bridge the ever increasing skill gap, allowing players to learn from enemy:
  • techniques
  • tactics
  • positioning
• to discourage farming

As a bonus, it helps against cheaters as well.

Perhaps in smaller fights but why should every side be known where they are to the enemy if they find a good spot to get the drop and keep the enemy unaware of numbers in the area? A small squad can appear to be an army. Result of known numbers that appear to be more? Intimidation factor lost and other side storms in no longer afraid of being swarmed. It favors the attackers more then defenders and defending HAS to be done in this game at times.

Bogus arguments, seriously. Everybody can already look at the map and get an estimation about how many enemies are in an area. Kill-cam won't change that.

If you want an idea of how many people there are in a building and want to know the locations then that's what the dart gun is for. Use it. Speaking of which, a killcam would make that less useful so another reason not to add it.

Not true. Kill-cam is a time stamp, after which the enemy has probably already moved. A dart gun however, sensors player movement which is a whole lot different. Btw, if you want to stay undetected as a team in a building, you should not be shooting from that building in the first place.

The way you argue your case is "look at who killed you. See their class. Know EXACTLY why you died" but we already get that. The only thing we don't see is the location and you want to be lazy and not make the effort to look for who killed you?

Kill-cam is not about looking for who killed you. As said above, it's pointless as a personal vendetta machine. It's about giving away positions so you learn about camping spots and force the enemy to move to another camping spot after a kill.

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

I never mentioned zergs.

"farm fest" implies zergs does it not?

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Bogus arguments, seriously. Everybody can already look at the map and get an estimation about how many enemies are in an area. Kill-cam won't change that.

As I said before, there's a difference between an estimation and constantly knowing. All you got to do with a kill cam is send someone into the building to know what's inside and where.

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Not true. Kill-cam is a time stamp, after which the enemy has probably already moved. A dart gun however, sensors player movement which is a whole lot different. Btw, if you want to stay undetected as a team in a building, you should not be shooting from that building in the first place.

See above. Only instead of once it's used over and over and over. Never worry about dart gun ammo again.

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Kill-cam is not about looking for who killed you. As said above, it's pointless as a personal vendetta machine. It's about giving away positions so you learn about camping spots and force the enemy to move to another camping spot after a kill.

Your only argument so far is to discourage sniping. You seem to think that adding kill cam will make them move. It won't. They're likely already moving anyway (if not in a tower). Besides, anyone with half a brain knows good sniping spots. Behind cover or high up, preferably both. Is it really so difficult for new players to understand that that we need to add a kill cam?

Other then knowing the location of someone that sniped you, what does kill cam have to offer? You got shot down by aircraft? Well, guess you didn't look up. Tank round? Obviously on the ground nearby somewhere. No wait, with kill cam I can see it's just gone behind that rock and I hadn't seen it when it fired. I now know where to flank the bugger.

Yea, I don't see this working.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Taramafor

"farm fest" implies zergs does it not?

Farming is not the same as zerging, you should know that by now.

As I said before, there's a difference between an estimation and constantly knowing. All you got to do with a kill cam is send someone into the building to know what's inside and where.

Knowing exactly what's inside a building you can already do without a kill-cam: Just go to a building and look inside.

See above. Only instead of once it's used over and over and over. Never worry about dart gun ammo again.

For that you need to keep dying again and again but here you actually do have a point for a possible exploit with a kill-cam. You could have your team mate constantly heal while you die over and over again to constantly give situational updates.

Not sure if that would be a game breaker though. Don't forget that UAV's are already in the making, which do exactly the same without the cumbersome dying.

Also, there are many ways to implement kill-cams. Everybody is assuming in this discussion that a kill-cam would completely give a way the surroundings of an enemy that shot you, revealing Sunderers, numbers of enemy in a building, etc. etc. This doesn't need to be the case. You can implement a kill-cam in a way that it only reveals the single person shooting.

Your only argument so far is to discourage sniping.

My argument is to discourage farming which is not the same as sniping as you know

You seem to think that adding kill cam will make them move. It won't. They're likely already moving anyway (if not in a tower). Besides, anyone with half a brain knows good sniping spots. Behind cover or high up, preferably both. Is it really so difficult for new players to understand that that we need to add a kill cam?

Other then knowing the location of someone that sniped you, what does kill cam have to offer? You got shot down by aircraft? Well, guess you didn't look up. Tank round? Obviously on the ground nearby somewhere. No wait, with kill cam I can see it's just gone behind that rock and I hadn't seen it when it fired. I now know where to flank the bugger.

You make it all sound like it's dead easy to figure out what and how you got killed but many times it's really not, especially as a new player. This game is too chaotic and vertical for that.

Originally Posted by Wahooo

What? You started saying it was as a tool for new players, but here it is what you are REALLY talking about is that you don't like a play style and would like to punish those players.

Discouraging farming is a good thing in my book but other than that kill-cam is not about punishing play styles. You can still farm whatever you want, only now there's a risk attached to it.

Originally Posted by Canaris

I think bro as you can see from the cross sample of players here on PS-U the killcam ain't popular and wouldn't get a very warm reception if this mini tsunami of hate is anything to go by

I wasn't expecting to win a popularity contest here.

Going to hardcore fps forum and proposing a newbie friendly COD feature is like praying for Jesus in a mosque. That doesn't mean we should steer away from the issue that this game is becoming ever more newbie unfriendly and that this is a problem for hardcore players as well.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Kill-cam is not about looking for who killed you. As said above, it's pointless as a personal vendetta machine. It's about giving away positions so you learn about camping spots and force the enemy to move to another camping spot after a kill.

What? You started saying it was as a tool for new players, but here it is what you are REALLY talking about is that you don't like a play style and would like to punish those players.

Slow clap...

time to move on.

[PredatorFour]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Camping is a problem that Kill Cam won't solve.

Are you for real ?????? Saying camping is a problem in an arena shooter i can perfectly understand but in a shooter where there is objectives on a massive scale?? It's insane to say camping is a problem in planetside!

"oh look at them campers holding the objective! We need to change that!" ..or
"look at them campers holding that bottleneck stopping our massive TR zerg from going through!"

It's like going back in time and assaulting a castle...."stop camping the walls we can't get in!"

Like someone said earlier this is a troll thread, i'm out!

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Are you for real ?????? Saying camping is a problem in an arena shooter i can perfectly understand but in a shooter where there is objectives on a massive scale?? It's insane to say camping is a problem in planetside!

You're right, camping is not a problem in this game until it becomes farming. This is the kind of camping I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Roderick

I have never been a supporter of the kill cam. It always reveals more than it ever should and just takes the "covert" experience out of an FPS game.

As said above, there's a limit you can make to what a kill-cam can reveal and what for you as a veteran feels "covert" can just be a horrible frustrating experience for a newer player.

Originally Posted by Angrytortoise

Kill-Cam is a horrible idea, put plainly players should not be rewarded for having poor situational awareness. The "lets remove an aspect of combat for the benefit of new player adjustment" is just a bad line of thought; you could easily replace "kill-cam" with something like "autoaim" following that line of reasoning.

Besides you already have visual indicators as to where your being fired upon from via tracer fire/sound, and damage visual indication on your screen (red circle fragment damage indicator when you get hit which is common place in your vanilla shooter and anyone who's ever played a round of CoD should be familiar with). All the tools are there to be utilized; no point replacing them with an unnecessary crutch that removes or at least blatantly hampers legitimate tactical options in the game.

You said it yourself, the game has already many artificial elements that aid you. Kill-cam is just another element in that row, which really makes me think why people hyper-react so much on this one.
What made kill-cam in COD such a traumatizing experience that people are so raging about it? For me personally, it was a great feature in COD that really improved my game play. It never destroyed my tactical play, never felt to me that I couldn't go stealth, never gave me the feeling it revealed my "secrets". If anything, it made me stay more mobile, which is not a bad thing.

The only way kill cams would have a positive impact would be on a time delayed release where you could analyze your deaths after the fact, and for the lols factor on retarded deaths. somewhere between an hour and a day delayed so it doesn't give the viewer a tactical advantage in the immediate but honestly don't really think it's needed.

I have been thinking about this idea as well. Black Ops 2 has a pretty nifty recording and camera feature that you can use to make your own cool, cinematic videos as well as analyzing your game play.

Problem is that the average, casual player probably doesn't bother to dive into a feature like this. He just gives this game a try, gets farmed all the time by hardcore vets that want this game become even more hardcore and quits in frustration.