Three long overlooked problems with this game. - Page 5

ghnurbles · 2013-06-29, 07:48 AM

@Malorn

Having faster dropping, less manoeuvrable drop pods will be an improvement - dropping infantry behind enemy lines should be the role of a Galaxy, not a beacon.

I don't think the Instant Action changes are going to help a whole lot, however. People are still frequently going to be dropped into terrible and awkward positions. What I'd like to see, and what would pretty much guarantee good drop positions, would be to change beacons from squad items into public items:

Anyone can carry and place beacons, not just squad leaders.
Anyone can spawn at a beacon that has been placed.
Beacons only last a few minutes (or less), and have a resource cost to compensate for their new power.
Instant Action is weighted towards heavily used beacons (the more a beacon is used, the better its position is likely to be).

Such a change would also put an end to the business of constantly swapping around squad leader to whoever is in a useful place to put down a beacon, or to avoid the beacon cooldown. Squad leader should be purely a communicational role, not a mechanical one.

wasdie · 2013-06-29, 12:40 PM

Avoiding beacon cool down and squad deploy functionality working just like a beacon with a longer cooldown are both issues.

Beacons need a few more limitations. You should not be able to avoid the cool down. Transferring squad leader should not reset any beacons. Once one is placed down it's tied to that squad, not the player who placed it.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some sort of a beacon timer on squad leader change. Right now you can transfer ownership of the squad to anybody and that person can place a beacon down wherever they are thus using the beacons for beyond their intended use of getting the squad together. Real easy to hand it off to an ESF pilot who can quickly land, place the beacon, and then go.

Also you shouldn't be able to do a squad spawn off of a dead leader. Let's put some emphasis on leadership with that role, not just make it a combat role with the ability to call in reinforcements on top of you and place waypoints down. It would also be awesome if a little star or something appeared next to the name of a spotted enemy squad leader AND friendly squad leaders. Let them stick out a bit more and be larger targets. They've got more tools that make them more valuable on the battlefield. They should play that role a bit more.

I would love if the squad deploy followed the same drop pod mechanics as the instant action and the squad beacon had a few more rules to prevent it from being used as a primary way to bring your troops into battle.

I would prefer to see Galaxies and Sunderers as the primary method of bringing troops to the battle with a squad beacon being something you can use once in awhile and the squad deploy as something used to make sure players can get to the same hex as their squad leader. Doing this would still achieve the original goals of the squad deploy and squad beacon while reducing the ability to abuse it.

Ghoest9 · 2013-06-29, 01:07 PM

Everything the OP is complaining about - I see as a strong point of the game.

KarrdeBRBU · 2013-06-29, 01:25 PM

I'd be good with SOI type stuff so long as we can still use it with the functionality it has now. First, my outfit uses beacons to set AV/AA picnics on rocks and other weird locales. Either to delay an advance on a base or to create a no fly zone. Basically it gives the zerg breathing room. Second, and this is especially true for defenders, sometimes the beacon is pretty much the only way to knock out a sunderer. There's just too much crap between you and the spawn point. So pod in a kill it. To this day, I still don't get why ppl don't run mineguard though.

DviddLeff · 2013-06-29, 01:28 PM

Malorn those look like some good changes. Currently drop pods and instant action are far too effective at taking out attacking Sunderers. While it is one of my favorite things to do, it needs to be tougher.

Any thoughts on restricting squad deploy further - way too easy to move entire platoons across a continent in the time it takes a Scythe to fly squad leaders to the target?

wasdie · 2013-06-29, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Everything the OP is complaining about - I see as a strong point of the game.

How is it a strong point of the game?

Everybody complains that the bases are terrible and there is no metagame and it's largely due to these systems. How is that making this game better? These mechanics ensure a terrible battle flow.

NewSith · 2013-06-29, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by wasdie

How is it a strong point of the game?

Everybody complains that the bases are terrible and there is no metagame and it's largely due to these systems. How is that making this game better? These mechanics ensure a terrible battle flow.

This statement is false. The only reason - is base/facility layouts and that's it. Not like I agree with ghoest, but making a villian of the system that works as a good auxiliary to a broken design is not doing any good either.

thenewguyinred · 2013-07-01, 12:39 AM

what if spawn beacons only had a ceartain amount of uses every time you pulled it out and when you tried to switch squad leaders they had the cool down timer where yours left of. like if you just pulleed yours and you got 50% done with you timer then the person you passed it offed to would have 50% of there own timer left

AuntLou · 2013-07-01, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Wanted to share some of the drop pod thoughts and get your feedback. This is the general direction of where we're going with it, but as always it could change so no promises.

First, no current plans to remove drop pods. They're cool and a fun experience, particularly for new players. We would like to make them less annoying and follow the general battle lines better so we can have this cool and fun mechanic that augments the battle flow instead of disrupting it.

For drop pods in general looking at making them come down faster and making them a bit less maneuverable, so the net result is that they'd feel more frentic and get you to the action a bit sooner. You'd be able to steer to nearby cover but not move all that far from the origin point.

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.

The goal is that if you are a defender you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down in the middle of your base or the very top of a tower and bypassing your front line (unless there's a beacon/squadleader, which you can see and destroy/kill). And as an attacker you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down by your AMS or tanks and blowing them up. In both cases, the drop pods are your reinforcements and unlikely to be an immediate threat.

This should also be better for those dropping down as they are less likely to be immediately killed upon landing.

And for pilots, with drop-pods a bit more predictable you should have a pretty good idea of where not to fly to avoid getting hit by one.

Please please please don't ruing drop pods and spawn beacons. I really think they have their place in this game and have become a crucial strategy when breaking through enemy lines. What the OP complains about is just that, enemies breaking through the lines. Whelp IMO those front lines are just devensive walls of AV and AI that are just farming attackers trying to get into their base. There are a ton of bases in PS2 that are just too impenetrable and the spawn beacon is needed to balance it. Please don't screw this up!

wasdie · 2013-07-01, 06:37 PM

Tons of bases that are too impenetrable? Which ones? Light assaults can already hop over every defense in this game and if you want to land large amounts of players behind the line use a galaxy, not something that can teleport people behind the line.

Yesterday I watched as an outfit would have 2-3 squad leaders fly in a liberator or ESF, jump out, and then their entire squad would do a squad deploy and litter the entire area with droppods by the dozens.

How the heck can you defend against that?

EVILoHOMER · 2013-07-02, 05:47 AM

SOI is needed tbh.

Rahabib · 2013-07-02, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Wanted to share some of the drop pod thoughts and get your feedback. This is the general direction of where we're going with it, but as always it could change so no promises.

First, no current plans to remove drop pods. They're cool and a fun experience, particularly for new players. We would like to make them less annoying and follow the general battle lines better so we can have this cool and fun mechanic that augments the battle flow instead of disrupting it.

For drop pods in general looking at making them come down faster and making them a bit less maneuverable, so the net result is that they'd feel more frentic and get you to the action a bit sooner. You'd be able to steer to nearby cover but not move all that far from the origin point.

For instant action drop pods we are looking at making it so defenders always come down near the center of the facility, while attackers always come down somewhat randomly in a doughnut-shaped ring on the outside of the facility. This ring is roughly 150m from the center and differs by facility type, so the radius would be bigger for the large outposts and facilities than a small outpost. In PS1-terms, it's sort of like having an invisible SOI for attackers and having defenders come down in the center.

The goal is that if you are a defender you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down in the middle of your base or the very top of a tower and bypassing your front line (unless there's a beacon/squadleader, which you can see and destroy/kill). And as an attacker you don't have to worry as much about drop pods coming down by your AMS or tanks and blowing them up. In both cases, the drop pods are your reinforcements and unlikely to be an immediate threat.

This should also be better for those dropping down as they are less likely to be immediately killed upon landing.

And for pilots, with drop-pods a bit more predictable you should have a pretty good idea of where not to fly to avoid getting hit by one.

This sounds great for IA, although for squad beacons, if you can only drop using the "doughnut" area, it makes it so placement wont matter. I think you should keep it so they come in a tight group, moving faster, with much longer acquisition timers and shorter lifespan.

Senorblanco · 2013-07-02, 11:05 AM

Instead of wrecking the beauty of the drop pod, just make them take no dmg and do no dmg, that stops all the ppl bitching about dmg to the vehicle. Please don't change a wonderful element to the game.

Rahabib · 2013-07-02, 11:10 AM

I don't know about you but lately I haven't been able to hit anything with a drop let alone a hovering lib. Although if they are just hover spamming they kind of deserve it.

AuntLou · 2013-07-02, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by wasdie

Tons of bases that are too impenetrable? Which ones?

I'll just start with every tower there is. Plenty of others but yeah if your going against a force that knows what they are doing you shouldn't even get close.

Originally Posted by wasdie

Light assaults can already hop over every defense in this game and if you want to land large amounts of players behind the line use a galaxy, not something that can teleport people behind the line.

Yesterday I watched as an outfit would have 2-3 squad leaders fly in a liberator or ESF, jump out, and then their entire squad would do a squad deploy and litter the entire area with droppods by the dozens.

Light assaults can't get to the walls if the sunderers can't.

Oh a galaxy can get behind enemy lines????? Better nerf it!!!!

Originally Posted by wasdie

How the heck can you defend against that?

You get out from behind you mana turret and shoot them. Also while your at it shoot the beacon with the huge shinning light in the sky. They will stop coming if you do that.