Do planetside players have legit concerns or do they just hate to evolve?

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Good to know you're just trolling then. It means we can all stop taking you seriously.


Thanks for playing.

Just because I use the word "bait" doesn't mean I'm trolling and doing it for the lolz.

It just means I knew it would generate a few charged responses, which doesn't affect my legitimacy at all.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Figment

No, not at all. This is used it to paint ANYONE opposing or critiqueing a "bittervet" on these particular topics, just so you can "win" the arguments in question for the "pro-PS2-changers". (See what I did there?)

Please read my post again critically.

I do not say anyone that is opposed to such changes is a bittervet, but the type of response they generate is what makes them so.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Please read my post again critically.

I do not say anyone that is opposed to such changes is a bittervet, but the type of response they generate is what makes them so.

And what I'm saying is that I've noticed ANYONE critiqueing is lobbed in a whiner/moaner group "PS1-hippy"-stereotype by "PS2-hippies" using just that argument.

I do hope you realise right now though that ostracizing means an us-them "we don't want your kind here" kind of thing?

[Badjuju]

It is the american way to fear change.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Badjuju

It is the american way to fear change.

Lol?

We invented change, son.

[Shogun]

i don´t see a problem here.
this community is very passionate and most discussions bring up some very constructive views!

the devs have told us on several occasions, that they totally love our feedback and consider it a great and unique way of gamedevelopement!
it is vital that the devs get feedback from newbs and from vets. and as far as i can judge by now, the devs do a good job in filtering the constructive concerns. from the first announcement over the gdc footage till now we had a lot of concerns, and most legit ones were adressed in some way. the devs even found nice compromises like the dedicated tank-gunner as a cert or tradeoff.
THAT´s what i call evolution! just saying yes to every change without voicing your concerns would be devolution.
as an example, where is the evolution in dropping vehicle enter animations?
that´s something i know i will miss! no need to wait for beta to know this.
other things like general balance or the jump pads are things i want to test in the beta before i decide if it´s good or bad.

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Figment

The thing is that the moment someone makes a single comparison to PS1 - anywhere and on anything - a certain group of people will automatically counter this with one of these:

- "You just want it to be like PS1"
- "You are probably afraid of change"
- "This is a different game you can't compare it with PS1". Yet comparing to "modern" games and what "modern players want" can be done consistently, of course. In fact, change is often "supported"
- "It was probably flawed"
- "The devs know what they are doing"
- "It's an improvement because it has changed"

I just don't understand the people that try to stop any comparison with PS1 on an individual game trait and gameplay basis. Comparing to ANYTHING ELSE is fine, as long as you don't compare it to the first since they fear you'd conserve something which suddenly would stop PS2 from being a new game or something.

I don't get it. Comparing a sequel with its predecessor or using knowledge and experience from the game closest to PS2 is weird, how?

You are one of these people Dreamcast. You immediately categorise people as "you want PS1 with better graphics" the very moment they critique PS2 and refer to PS1 on whatever level. That makes you a big fanboy tbh. You will jump to the defense of PS2 and try to put down and away anyone refering to PS1 as some sort of extreme conservative. Regardless if they are talking about one, five or ten gameplay elements out of a few hundred.

Im not saying every planetside player resists all changes but it does seem their is people who complain about every little change and claim is gonna ruin the great Planetside.

[Stardouser]

At some point we need to come up with a laundry list of every possible aspect of a shooter, and analyze it from PS1 to PS2. Let's just say there were 50 issues that changed. I think you will find it breaks down something like this:
The average PS1 vet will think:
30 are acceptable
10 not impressed, but won't crusade against
10 are unacceptable

that's my personal guess. Not liking 10 out of 50 changes is not the same as being afraid of change.

And as far as list, I got one started here:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=40303

Perhaps it will come in handy in 2.5 weeks after TB's additional stuff, Hamma's additional stuff, and E3, give us more info to work with.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Im not saying every planetside player resists all changes but it does seem their is people who complain about every little change and claim is gonna ruin the great Planetside.

No, you are saying that every player who even dares reference PS1 is a zealot.

[Figment]

Stardouser is pretty much spot on. The list changes from person to person though, hence why all 70 might be unacceptable to some (on an individual basis!), but percentually not by far to all.

I mean, some people don't like that BFRs are out. Duh.

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

The funny thing is, I've seen this exact argument play out in Battlefield 3's development process. There may have been 100 different changes incoming, and BF2 vets opposed around 10, but despite the fact that this left 90 changes unopposed, we were accused of not wanting to change.

One thing that people need to learn is that simply changing something is not evolution.

And I'm not even a PS1 vet, so the things that *I* oppose in PS2, it doesn't mean that I would do it the same way Planetside 1 did it, either. Sometimes we still want change, we just don't want the particular change that the devs have chosen. That doesn't mean we are unwilling to accept change at all.

To me Evolve means change from the way I was trying to use it .....The way I see it a fish evolves to a land creature....Do this mean the land creature is better than the fish?...No it means the land creature is better on land and the fish is better at the water..At least thats how I used evolve, to mean change not to mean a chimpanzee turning into a "better" human.

I hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Things a "bittervet" is likely to oppose:

class system
shields
iron sights
lock on weapons
low ttk
driver-gunner tanks
galaxy spawning
lack of support vehicles
lack of buggies
lack of E&E animations

Is anyone who played PS1 that opposes one of these a "bittervet"? No.

A bittervet first opposes these changes by saying it makes the game too much like Battlefield 3/COD or that the game is catering too much to casuals, then go on to nostalgia-gasm over PS1. Any attempt to provide a counter argument leads to them either explicitly saying "you didn't play the game enough" or implying it, and points are reiterated and rehashed ad nauseum. Arguing with these people is like arguing against a wall, except that wall calls you close minded as well.

Doing this provides no feedback for the developers. They will not change their game to suit people like this. If you oppose something, provide good and reasoned argument for against it. Provide data and not anecdotal evidence.

I played PS1, and I played it for more than a year. I would be a veteran technically, but you wouldn't know it from my responses here. I try to provide a foil to most arguments opposing things that the developers have changed or truncated, just because I hate seeing how this community allows such behavior and I hate the developers to become the public pincushion because they can't respond to each and every thread.

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I could make the same list and the same statements about a handful of "fanboys" on this board who agree with absolutely everything. But generalizing like that doesn't help anyone.


Many, MANY people did and do. Pages and pages of arguments against certain changes. I can provide links if you want.

There are always a handful of people on any topic who go no further than "It's too much like CoD", just like there are a handful of people on the other side of the issue who go no further than "You're just a bittervet scared of change". Most of the "whining" I've seen on this board has been in the middle, people opposed to a change providing solid reasons why. Now it might turn out that they're wrong, or that certain things are being blown out of proportion, it's hard to tell when we don't even have a beta to play. But regardless the arguments and reasons to back up the opposition are there, and I know you've seen them.

HAHAHAHA don't lie.


Their is way more people who say "That is so COD like"...that "you are scarred of change"...In fact I havn't heard anybody say "you're scurred of change" other than this thread which is for the purpose to address the problem of people being scurred of change.

Examples of this are

Low tk= COD......I don't even know how that is possible, is like people are obsessed with hating COD that they don't realize other games have low ttk....BTW Planetside 2 TTK and gunplay is exactly like Killzone 2 which is good.


Iron sights=COD

class system=cod


Anything that COD did is compared to COD from what I have seen in this forums.



The funny thing is since is related to COD....it automatically means "DumbingDown" the game.


Which is the dumbest thing ever since Planetside was never complicated...never.


Planetside 1 was as simple as it got....The combat was very simple...It was fun but simple.


Putting classes, doesnt dumb it down....Just because you could choose a sniper and a med class to heal yourself after you got shot, doesn't make it complicated...It makes is Overpowered and ruins the fun of sniping but not complicated.

[Figment]

No Dreamcast, that doesn't make sense. Let's play football with a brick. Evolution!

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Figment

No, you are saying that every player who even dares reference PS1 is a zealot.

Thats the reason I said I had concerns about Planetside 2 in my first post and hope they keep they inventory system like in Planetside 1.

[Hamma]

Ok guys really? Let's try and at least keep this somewhat constructive.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Which is the dumbest thing ever since Planetside was never complicated...never.


Planetside 1 was as simple as it got....The combat was very simple...It was fun but simple.

You're so hung up on this simplicity that you don't actually see past it.

This 'simplicity' allowed outfits to co-ordinate (through 3rd party voice since ingame was... bad) air-drops, logistics, tank columns, spec ops... everything you could think of and more.

This 'simplicity' allowed people to actually play the game and have fun whilst still giving them the freedom to be as involved in the massive fights or lone wolf should they wish.

This 'simplicity' and it's entailed freedom of action was what truly made PS so good, it allowed US, the players, to really be a part of the game and make it so much more than all those other fps out there.

You're telling old PS players to adapt, when the reality is, they adapted so much so that, now, they see decisions being made for PS2 which will actually REDUCE their options/abilities/freedoms that were in the original and you want us to believe it's evolving...

I do find it funny that your 'sniper healing' example was OP, yet when I first played PS all those years ago, I had a conversation with a cloaker in a squad I was in and I asked him what he could use, such as a sniper rifle, he said, no, think how overpowered that would be, stealth and 2 stk from 300+ metres... yet here we are 9 years later and the cloaking 'class' has a sniper rifle.

As mentioned earlier by Longfella, I think, PS2 is looking nice and shiny but no one played PS for the graphics. I hope the team aren't getting stuck into the graphical side of things that are comparatively easier to make amazing than working on the difficult, nebulous, intangible 'gameplay' factor that will be what really makes PS2 the great game it should be.