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2012-04-24, 04:38 PM | [Ignore Me] #61 | |||
Corporal
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After working with the UAW for several years, I am convinced that the long term viability of a company doesn't even work its way into their thinking. These clowns will run a company right into the ground even at the cost of their own jobs. |
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2012-04-24, 04:54 PM | [Ignore Me] #62 | |||
Major
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Can't really comment on the issue without knowing the discussions between the owners and the union. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Unions are all knowing super geniuses. There will always be some morons finding their way to the top. |
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2012-04-24, 04:57 PM | [Ignore Me] #63 | ||
Lieutenant General
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Loudmouths often do well in unions. Brains are not always a job requirement. Think we mentioned before that there are union actions that overexert themselves and shoot themselves in the foot out of greed. Then again, company greed is why they exist.
Some companies do anything to save money. Look at the recent Apple ordeal with their Asian manufacturing plants and under what stress and health conditions those workers live. Imagine if that had been in the US, where the response to a high suicide rate among workers living in worker flats was to simply install a safety next, literally. Nice, huh? |
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2012-04-25, 06:41 PM | [Ignore Me] #64 | |||
Corporal
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Several times I went down to the manufacturing floor with concepts that would the reduce the cost of an engine component by reducing machining hours, only to get no participation from the operators. They didn't get the concept of if we make our products less expensive via improvements, that we could sell more engines. All they saw was "Less hours to machine part A = less hours for me = less money in their paycheck". Basic business acumen is completely gone from their thinking. Also they had a great scam going on that was friggen brilliant. Almost anytime we would be preparing a shipment of turbines for a customer, one of the skilled trades would need to perform maintenance on one of the milling machines. Usually on a Wednesday or Thursday an electrician would slap a lock-out-tag-out log on the powerbox and then would call in sick for the next 2-3 days. Meanwhile the operator can't perform the next milling operation on the part because only the person with the key to the lock-out-tag-out lock can remove it. Now we have missed 2-3 days worth of milling time. The electrician becomes unsick on Saturday so we bring him in to remove the LOTO, and the operator being the great guy that he is offers to work Saturday and Sunday. So we now end up paying 1.5 per hourly wage for the work on Saturday and 2.5 per hourly wage for Sunday. I havent worked with other unions before but from what I have seen they have more in common with organized crime the organized labor. |
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2012-04-26, 11:02 AM | [Ignore Me] #66 | ||
Lieutenant General
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@Shultz: that's not an union thing, that's a working ethics and discipline thing that's more to do with culture and adequately responding management than worker interest groups.
In that particular case, I also don't get why you don't give more people the ability to access the LOTO. Seems like a management issue that those workers exploit to me anyway. |
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2012-04-26, 01:34 PM | [Ignore Me] #67 | |||
Major
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2012-04-26, 01:50 PM | [Ignore Me] #68 | |||
Corporal
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@Vash - it's not my job to make a business case to an hourly operator. He doesn't own the machine, nor the parts. Furthermore what about demand? You think his pissing around is going to help him if demand falls? |
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2012-04-26, 02:02 PM | [Ignore Me] #69 | |||
Major
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Say for instance they make 3 engines a day (note: I dont know anything about making engines) and your idea increases that to 4 engines a day. if you can sell 4, thats fine and dandy. But if demand drops and you can only sell 3 a day and go "sorry lads, no ones buying you've got to go home", they are the ones out of pocket from the deal while the impact on the business is none. |
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2012-04-26, 05:02 PM | [Ignore Me] #70 | |||
Lieutenant General
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Or is that too simple? I understand the safety regulations (thank you unions), but safety regulation abuse due to inefficient application of those rules is something else entirely: that's a management inefficiency. Last edited by Figment; 2012-04-26 at 05:05 PM. |
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2012-04-29, 01:18 AM | [Ignore Me] #71 | ||||
Sergeant
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What you just referenced has nothing to do with unions and everything to do with management. You cannot force your managers to do something they do not want to do, even if it is the best thing in the world. If they do not wish to listen, you just have to bite the bullet on that. Unless you are the one calling the shots, its tough luck but that is in no way a union issue. I am going to comment on a few items I saw here. One thing about the women's pay issue, it is mostly their fault. When a woman does not get paid as much in today's market, it is because they are not being aggressive enough. Women who are more aggressive at the bargaining table get paid more, pretty simple. That also does not have anything to do with a union. Most of the time for different jobs, unions don't set pay like that. Like in higher education, the initial pay is set by the school, not the union. (Not like janitors or whatnot, but directors, support staff, etc). There is typically a pay grade and it has a range and the place hiring will always start at the bottom. The problem comes from confidence. Someone who is confident in their abilities will be more aggressive and want the higher pay. Not all unions are bad. The union my dad belonged to was pretty good. They did the things unions were meant to do. He was a pipe-fitter and as such, pretty much every job was contracted out. When the one job was finished, there would be another waiting, something the union took care of. This wasn't no job placement place either, you had the apprenticeship, journeyman and so on that you had to go through. Pay was decent and benefits were pretty good. When it comes to what workers are supposed to do, it's best to know what the union people can and cannot do. Like the union people being the ones picking up a can of soda off the ground, that is a line of BS, sorry. Most contracts are not that petty. A can of soda on the ground would not be in a contract as you wouldn't just leave that on the ground and wait for the custodian to pick it up... Now, something like vomit would be in their contract and your work would get pretty mad at you if you tried to clean it up. It is considered a bio-hazard and all... Again, it all comes down to the industry you are working in. Also, don't talk about teachers, they get paid shit. The individuals who are working in the K-12 sector that get paid very well have gotten a master's/phd and have been working for a long time doing that type of work. They earned their wages. Starting out, you don't get paid that well. Also, are they working for a public or private school (for profit) or an alternative school? I like this quote about why some, if not most, are bad.
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Last edited by Natir; 2012-04-29 at 01:20 AM. |
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2012-05-03, 02:36 PM | [Ignore Me] #72 | |||
Master Sergeant
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The link below is the history of Unions, and yes it does mention Euros Uniondom. In fact it shows Unions in several countries. The bigest Union is called Communisim - You know when Government gets into controlling the business of a country completely. And workers, have, you know, all equal rights. They get to do whatever jobs that are selected for them. They all get the same pay - Equal pay for equal work. They are all commrades. All Unions start with Labor. The act of work. The Laborer. He who does work. Because the worker must have rights. An we the Union will give it to them. Of course some where along the way those in control get more rights, and the laborers get less. They start off making more money and in time make less. who knew? Some where along the way Unions, turn form organizations that want to help the worker to organizations that dictate to the worker. And before you talk about the power of the Strike - against companies - know this. You the worker do not even have the right to strike. If the Union says no you don't. Unions control workers, no matter what job they do. In return they promise, but mostly do not deliver, better rights for the worker, higher pay, and protection from companies who would abuse them. Better skilled , better trained workers. lol. And then, there are the unskilled unions starting in 1936. The first real " MAY DAY" that happened in the United States was about the Unions back then too. History always repeats itself. These links will show the link to Labor Organization, or Unions. When you get to the basis all of these terms are interchangable. They are all forms of control on production. They all start with labor. They all do what they do in the name of the poor worker. And Ultimately they all fail. If any worked at all, and they were so great, don't you think we would all be in them by now. Thes links should help clarify my statements. MAY Day History - http://www.marxists.org/subject/mayday/index.htm Unions http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/friedman.unions.us About Trade Unions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union About Communism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism About Socialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
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OL - Dangerous Operations Group {DOG} "There is NO "I" in Teamwork" DOG SLOGAN - "It's not the size of the DOG in a fight, it's the size of the fight in the DOG" DOG BATTLE CRY - " Cry 'Havoc,' and Let Slip The DOG's OF War. " And Hamma I see the VS and the NC have infiltrated your board. So the TR will have to kill them all and make them the yellow bastards they are |
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2012-05-03, 03:12 PM | [Ignore Me] #73 | |||
Master Sergeant
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OL - Dangerous Operations Group {DOG} "There is NO "I" in Teamwork" DOG SLOGAN - "It's not the size of the DOG in a fight, it's the size of the fight in the DOG" DOG BATTLE CRY - " Cry 'Havoc,' and Let Slip The DOG's OF War. " And Hamma I see the VS and the NC have infiltrated your board. So the TR will have to kill them all and make them the yellow bastards they are Last edited by Noivad; 2012-05-03 at 03:20 PM. |
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2012-05-04, 10:50 PM | [Ignore Me] #74 | |||
Colonel
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Women tend to make less largely because they tend to take less physically demanding and physically dangerous work, both aspects of a job that add somewhat to pay. When comparing womens salaries to mens in similar jobs/fields/experience levels, pay gaps have for the most part disappeared. |
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2012-05-05, 02:36 AM | [Ignore Me] #75 | |||
Master Sergeant
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Some women stand up for themselves and don't let men tell them what they can or can't do and what they want for pay. Most don't. Men still dictate what a womens worth is, and how much they can make. And a lot of wome accept it or they would not be paying twice as much for the same items that men at half their price. Savey Business women know this and price hike the women too. Its a sad cycle.
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OL - Dangerous Operations Group {DOG} "There is NO "I" in Teamwork" DOG SLOGAN - "It's not the size of the DOG in a fight, it's the size of the fight in the DOG" DOG BATTLE CRY - " Cry 'Havoc,' and Let Slip The DOG's OF War. " And Hamma I see the VS and the NC have infiltrated your board. So the TR will have to kill them all and make them the yellow bastards they are |
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