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Old 2004-05-29, 10:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #61
tmax
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going on a head to head basis a full thunderer, raider and arura are all about equal aginst eachother. But the problem comes that for every 1 radier the tr can pump out and fully load, the vanu and nc can pump out 2. Now trying to take down 2 tunderers with one raidr is a helpless cause and you might as well just bend over and grab your ankles. I alos do find it quite redicular that the thuderers shells will take out a rexo in one shot. Pretty much what the nc now have in their arsenal is a non tech plant tank. Im not saying the tr got the crappyest one but its the same with the prowler. sure its good that we can fit 3 people in there but we stand no chance when the nc can gun 5 vans in a full squad and we can only get 3. If we had the dominant majority of players in our empire id say having more seats would be a good idea but otherwise were just getting bent over on the deal
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Old 2004-05-29, 10:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #62
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I have a new killwhore cert, It's called ATV

I killed 3 magriders, a vanguard, a low hovering reaver, a shitload of buggies and too many lightnings than I can count

fury for teh win
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Old 2004-05-29, 11:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #63
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i h8 Aurora, if ur gunners aren't experts... it just isn't effective... I think it needs a bigger clip size.
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Old 2004-05-29, 11:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #64
Rbstr
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thunderers no longer take out infanty in one shot (agile/rexo) unless they had some damage already

Also the Raider has much more DOT than Any of the other dels, i personaly think more gunners is an advantage, keeping two behind and two forward was quiet effective last night untill NC started binging in the tanks
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Old 2004-05-29, 11:54 AM   [Ignore Me] #65
Warborn
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Originally Posted by Rbstr
Also the Raider has much more DOT than Any of the other dels
No, it doesn't. Maybe if you completely ignore how the game is played and just look at some spreadsheet it does, but in practical situations the Raider doesn't do more damage because all of your bullets will not hit unless you're point blank. Even if you keep the gun trained on the target the bloom will cause many of your shots to go stray and you will not do the damage you could. Coupled with the movement of the Raider and the problem only worsens. If the Raider had no cof bloom and the terrain wasn't so rough then perhaps you'd do close to your maximum damage potential, but saying its damage over time is comparable is like saying a MCG's damage at 100 yards is greater than that of a bolt driver's.
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Old 2004-05-29, 12:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #66
FatalLight
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Originally Posted by Warborn
...in practical situations the Raider doesn't do more damage because all of your bullets will not hit unless you're point blank. Even if you keep the gun trained on the target the bloom will cause many of your shots to go stray and you will not do the damage you could.
I hear this too much. The reason it is so inacurate is because ther are so many of you! If you all shoot at the same person you might not think it but your buddies are hitting it too and Ive been shot by it in a vec, the damage adds up fast. If the crew know what they are doing it should only take you 15-20 seconds. Also some one said the thund doesnt kill rexo in 1 shot ne mor. Um THERS 2 GUNS. Its basically 1 shot if you guys work together. Its the same with the aurora, if you both in alteration shoot you are basically shooting non stop. Part of the game is working together, thats why its massively multiplayer...
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Old 2004-05-29, 12:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #67
Onizuka-GTO
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Originally Posted by Sobekeus
PS: If that was an insult, you really have low standards...


i was in a mood at the time i posted that.
But to be honest, a insult is a insult no matter what the standard....

but i forgive you, because you love the Gunship as much as me.
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Last edited by Onizuka-GTO; 2004-05-29 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 2004-05-29, 03:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #68
Warborn
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Originally Posted by FatalLight
I hear this too much. The reason it is so inacurate is because ther are so many of you! If you all shoot at the same person you might not think it but your buddies are hitting it too and Ive been shot by it in a vec, the damage adds up fast.
No, you're incorrect. Even with all four guns trained on a target, unless they're very close, they will take a while to die. I wouldn't expect you to understand this unless you've gunned for a Raider a lot in battle. If it's a vehicle and it's close, yes, it will take a lot of damage. If it's infantry and it's not close, unless there isn't any cover or some equally unusual situation is afoot, it will generally make it out alive.
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Old 2004-05-29, 04:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #69
Diddy Mao
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Originally Posted by Warborn
Killing infantry with them while the vehicle is moving, ascending and desending hills and so on, is very difficult.
Same With the thunderer, yet ours is a single shot with hardly any splash damage

Originally Posted by Warborn
The Raider is quite bad at killing infantry unless the infantry are very close to it
Exact opposite for Thunderer the downward angle on it is horrendous if you get within 5 meters on foot it can't touch u unless the thunder pulls away and lines you up.(by then It would have been jammered and light up by Strikers, Lancers)

Originally Posted by Warborn
The Thunderer, on the other hand, has a much easier time with it, not only because it shoots a single accurate projectile with a strong punch
Negative It's just as hard, the Thunderer is not as accurate as you think you either get a direct hit or you don't, the splash damage doesn't do enough to cause signifigant damage


Originally Posted by Warborn
Furthermore, why is it that the Thunderer is A-OK being very strong with a crew of retarded apes, yet the Raider requires a coordinated crew (LAWL IF THE TR HAVE ANY LAWL)
Thunder needs a coordinated crew as well, it doesn't have the Splash Damage of the Magrider, Vanguard, Prowler so you actually time you shots (Raider you just hold down the button till you need to reload), A raider is just as deadly, a Thunder can become reaver bait if it's not manned by a competent gunner
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Old 2004-05-29, 06:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #70
Warborn
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Originally Posted by Diddy Mao
Same With the thunderer, yet ours is a single shot with hardly any splash damage
It's easier to line up a single shot in rough terrain than to keep the crosshairs trained on a target. The splash damage gives you room for error, too. You won't hit every shot, of course, but Thunderers are far more effective against infantry than Raiders.


Exact opposite for Thunderer the downward angle on it is horrendous if you get within 5 meters on foot it can't touch u unless the thunder pulls away and lines you up.(by then It would have been jammered and light up by Strikers, Lancers)
The Raider has the same issue. When I refer to very close range, I of course mean close, but far enough away that the guns can actually swivel down enough to fire at the target. All the Deliverer variants have this issue, as does the Deliverer itself.

Negative It's just as hard, the Thunderer is not as accurate as you think you either get a direct hit or you don't, the splash damage doesn't do enough to cause signifigant damage
I think you're downplaying the splash on the Thunderer a little to much. It does have splash, it does hurt, and while it won't instantly kill infantry, it will certainly hurt them quite a bit.

Thunder needs a coordinated crew as well, it doesn't have the Splash Damage of the Magrider, Vanguard, Prowler so you actually time you shots (Raider you just hold down the button till you need to reload), A raider is just as deadly, a Thunder can become reaver bait if it's not manned by a competent gunner
The Thunderer does not need a coordinated crew. Each individual gun is quite powerful. Yes, both of them working on the same target will, as people have mentioned, be enough to stop even Prowlers, but individually they are still quite strong and capable of getting numerous kills, as anyone who's seen them at work knows. The Raider on the other hand has four weak guns which according to the developers balance out because if the gunners work together then the Raider becomes formidable against vehicles or infantry at close range.

However, where the Thunderer can be outfitted with idiots and still do fine because each gun is powerful in its own right, the Raider suffers, because pubbies will not work together on anything but obvious targets (a single Vanguard bearing down on the vehicle, for instance) which means that out of the hands of a very coordinated crew the Raider flounders, because each gun isn't practical enough to compensate for the lack of teamwork inherent in pick up crews. In most cases, Raiders are just a novelty, firing rounds every which way, not doing any serious damage while taking five potential infantry out of the fight.
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Old 2004-05-29, 11:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #71
Onizuka-GTO
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He's speak truth. With all four guns trained on a target, almost everything except aircrafts at considerable range will be defeat.
I was running in terror in my Magrider when i saw a Raider (which i found out had a full crew and were obviously working well together), and even that wasn't enough since the Raider is faster then a Magrider and it chased me until i either found a safe base or died.

Thunderer i run from immediately, i don't hang around to play with. Thunderer = end of fun.
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Old 2004-05-30, 12:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #72
AltaEgo
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Originally Posted by Lartnev
Oh, and everyone's forgotton about the new AMS... own up, who keeps going to the back of the AMS to get their equipment? *raises hand*
LMAO Aye, my friend. I do, also.
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Old 2004-05-30, 06:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #73
EarlyDawn
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Yeah, I accidentally disinigrated myself that way a few times thus far =D
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Old 2004-05-30, 06:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #74
Rayder
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I can believe it Early, after last night, not even knowing where your weird cam was.
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Old 2004-06-01, 02:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #75
KIAsan
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I just gotta say it, Raider sux. Period. It is much better to roll a Del than a raider any day. I would much rather roll two dels than 1 Raider anyway (Bettery damage and more chance for at least one vehicle to survive AND requires just as much coordination as the Raider BUT only requires 1 more body).

For the VS who are complaining, yeah, yours is not as good as it could be, but you can always roll a Del, so you have two choices in platforms. You have the original Del which is a great vehicle AND you get the rolling mortar platform which can be very effective in the right circumstances.

I don't take any NC complaints seriously, they are obviously posting as a disinformation campaign to try to stave off any nerfs.

No, Warborn hit it correctly, the devs are interpreting the TR motto to do less with more. More people to do the job than other empires. I don't mind throwing more bullets, but requiring more people is insane.
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