Abortion! - Page 5

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-15, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
Animal DNA doesn't even fit in this discussion. I'm not sure how you think it does. Human DNA is special because it is human. I don't particularly care if you go out and kill a deer or not. You can't murder deer. They're just deer.
Onward.....
You're not commiting murder every moment of the day because we are not talking about potential. Sperm is potential. It also has the same DNA as the parent, thus proving that it is potential and not reality. At the moment of conception, it is no longer potential. New DNA is formed and that potential has become reality. Stop the potential all you want to, but once conception has occured, the time to speak of potential has passed.

Ahh, you don't see the fertilized egg is a potential human you see it as a full fledged human. You have come up with a very clear definition as to what it is to be human. This opens a whole new ball of moral problems (that I won't go into unless you really want me to).

If have an egg and a sperm in a test tube and they combine, would it be murder to not find a woman to put it into? Should a person who does this be tried for first degree murder? Would you feel confortable sending someone to the electric chair for not finding a woman to put this fertalized egg into?

If I have an egg and a sperm in one cup and an egg in a sperm in a second cup that have combined. Why is there something special in one cup, but not in the other? I don't see anything special in either cup.

If I take a cell of mine, and replace one chromosome with another chromosome. We have a new and unique set of genetic material that has the genetic propeties that a human posses'. Does this new cell deserve the same protection that a fertilized egg has.

I feel that a right to life comes from something more then simple genetic coding. What we are protecting by not aborting a baby is something more than the sum of it's genetic parts. I feel your definition of what makes a human a human it wrong (and many great philosophers would agree).

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-15, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
You have no arguement anymore, you're out of straws to grasp, come back when you've had some sleep. You've succesfully ignored facts and points, and your post lost congruency a while back.

No offense nav, but you are being very rude to Ashune. He is making many good points and concerns. I could just as easily say you are ignoring his facts and idea. Try to be more civil.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-15, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron

"But what makes the fetus above a chimpanzee or a cow"

Cause the Cow will never become a human. Technically speaking.

What if the chimp learns to write english and proves that he can function in society? Would you be so quick to say the chimp does not have the rights a human has.

I think the rights we are trying to protect extend beyond the idea of being a human.

Navaron · 2003-02-15, 01:31 AM

That would be one very cool chimp, and yeah, I'd like to see it stay alive as long as possible.

Arshune · 2003-02-15, 01:33 AM

Side note-they've already taught some chimps and gorillas sign language, and they can hold up simple discussions with humans. Granted, they talk more about simple things like food and feelings, but they can communicate nonetheless. That's why I'm against any experimentation on primates that causes them physical harm.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-15, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
What?!?!?!??!?!?!? Are you alive enough to be considered human?? What kind of statements are these?? What if I told you I was against all killing of animals?? Would that suddenly make my point valid?? How exactly are you comparing killing a cow and killing a human again??

Mistled, you be civil with Arshune too. I think the idea of what distinguishes a human from an animal is very pertinent here. If an alien race arived on earth, would they be justified in killing us for food, just because we will never be part of their species.

What if we evolve and visit a planet with a creature that is very similar to humans today which could talk to us and have a fully funtioning society. Would we be morally correct in killing these people? Would you feel confortable killing these creatures. They have different genetic material. Would you lobby against killing these creatures? If you would, then you should recognise that the way we value some life over others does not have anything to do with DNA.

I suggest that the value we place on life extends beyond pure genetic material. The reason we feel it is wrong to kill certain thing and not others is not based on pure genetic material.

If it is not pure genetic material, we can ask ourselves two questions. What does the fertilized embryo posess? And does it posses that "thing" that we decide makes a creature deserving of the right to life.

Nohimn · 2003-02-15, 09:50 AM

the baby is not me, therefore, I can kill it and live on with my life.....

it's the

less thing to do

diluted · 2003-02-15, 11:25 AM

i havent read all the others posts yet - just the first page. but yea im completely pro-abortion.

Destroyeron · 2003-02-15, 11:25 AM

well, I'm am for abortion. If a condum breaks its not their fault.

diluted · 2003-02-15, 11:30 AM

yea it annoys me that you all think just because an organism has different dna then it is not justified to kill them. well stop jacking off because youre killing organisms different than you. yes your sperm has different dna than you so dont ever have sex period, nor women should never have periods because they are killing organisms with different dna than them and comes from their body. =\

btw the word infant means literally "cannot speak"