Circumcision - Page 5

Baneblade · 2012-04-16, 03:49 PM

Just so we are clear on the religion angle, circumcision is a bad idea for babies for the same reason infant baptisms are... your baby is an athiest. You have to teach it to believe in your god.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-04-16, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Just so we are clear on the religion angle, circumcision is a bad idea for babies for the same reason infant baptisms are... your baby is an athiest. You have to teach it to believe in your god.

Something else I brought up with my parents. Told them I felt wronged that they brought me up catholic without waiting for me to be old enough to make my own decisions before signing me up for a cult. I told them I didn't hate them for it, but just wanted to point out it was unfair and led to a lot of struggle growing up as I came to terms with my lack of faith.

It pains me, the things we do to children before they're old enough and smart enough to figure it out for themselves. It's the primary source for a great deal of suffering in the world, and all done with the best intentions. It's tragic.

Elude · 2012-04-16, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Vash02

That is a dangerous and irresponsible attitude to take. You can justify all kinds of abuse to babies using that argument. "It's ok to slap the baby to make it shut up, it wont remember anything".

Circumcision for children should be banned. Face it, the main reason people circumcise their children is cosmetic, the health justifications are a secondary concern. No one should take a knife to a child and make permanent alterations to their body for little to none medical reasons. The child should make the decision whether they want a circumcision when they become an adult.

Face what? I've been agreeing that it's only for cosmetic reasons the entire time! Never once have I suggested there were medical reasons behind it.

I've admitted to it being wrong, I just think the anger towards it is overkill. Would you seriously hold a grudge against your parents if they had given you a tattoo as a baby?

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Just so we are clear on the religion angle, circumcision is a bad idea for babies for the same reason infant baptisms are... your baby is an athiest. You have to teach it to believe in your god.

Baptisms for a baby aren't bad, they're just pointless lol.

Vash02 · 2012-04-16, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Elude

Face what? I've been agreeing that it's only for cosmetic reasons the entire time! Never once have I suggested there were medical reasons behind it.

That part was more in general to the thread.

I've admitted to it being wrong, I just think the anger towards it is overkill. Would you seriously hold a grudge against your parents if they had given you a tattoo as a baby?

Yes, who wouldnt? It shows that they dont really care about you as a person, that they regard you as their property.

Warborn · 2012-04-16, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Elude

Baptisms for a baby aren't bad, they're just pointless lol.

Well they're pointless because it's just a weird virgin putting water on an infant, but for people who take that stuff seriously it's, I dunno, selling the child's soul to Christ I guess.

This is one of the other reasons I like the Amish. They and other anabaptists do not allow for children to be baptized because they feel that dedicating one's self to Christ is a decision only an adult can make. Not only do they defer baptism till teenager years, they also allow for rumspringa, wherein the Amish kid gets to go and live like "English" (non-Amish) people live so that they can make an informed decision to either be Amish or not. It's a pretty sensible way to handle the issue. Yet they were killed and chased out of Europe over it.

Figment · 2012-04-16, 07:46 PM

Warborn · 2012-04-17, 06:58 AM

Shunning varies from place to place in what warrants it and how severe the shunning is. Generally speaking, the shunning is directed toward Amish persons who break the rules after having been baptized and formally decided to remain with the Amish community. Those who elect to not join the church and remain Amish aren't shunned. Only if they choose to be baptized into the church and then decide they want to leave are they shunned in an effort to get them to mend their ways. It is shitty, but I can understand their motive for doing it and it has been an effective way of preserving their culture. And from the perspective of the Amish shunning someone, they see it as an absolute last resort to get a wayward fellow Amish to change their wayward nature and return to the fold. It's considered an act of love, really. Better than what the Christians used to/Muslims currently do to apostates, anyway.

Either way, the fact that Amish take a book like the Bible and bring it to a much more logical conclusion that the so-called Christians among us in our modern societies do is something I respect. They see the Jesus figure as a humble man who worked the land and taught his followers to be simple men and women of faith, and that is how they live their lives. They forgive even incredibly evil shootings done against them of out sheer malice, stay out of politics, and eschew a way of life beyond the toiling of the earth. It makes so much more sense than the Church with its gilded palaces and global influence.

Firefly · 2012-04-25, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

Something else I brought up with my parents. Told them I felt wronged that they brought me up catholic without waiting for me to be old enough to make my own decisions before signing me up for a cult. I told them I didn't hate them for it, but just wanted to point out it was unfair and led to a lot of struggle growing up as I came to terms with my lack of faith.

It pains me, the things we do to children before they're old enough and smart enough to figure it out for themselves. It's the primary source for a great deal of suffering in the world, and all done with the best intentions. It's tragic.

OH MY GAWD, MA AN' PA! YOU CUT OFF MY DICK! OH MY GAWD, PAW AND MAW! YOU RAISED ME CATHOLIC! THE SUFFERING OF THE WORLD RIDES ON MY CATHOLIC DICK!

Come to think of it, I think that last line was in a My Chemical Romance song that I recently heard as I rushed to turn off the radio.

Vash02 · 2012-04-25, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

OH MY GAWD, MA AN' PA! YOU CUT OFF MY DICK! OH MY GAWD, PAW AND MAW! YOU RAISED ME CATHOLIC! THE SUFFERING OF THE WORLD RIDES ON MY CATHOLIC DICK!

Come to think of it, I think that last line was in a My Chemical Romance song that I recently heard as I rushed to turn off the radio.

Now you're just being a dick. *ba dum dum tish*

Figment · 2012-04-25, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Vancha

I swear, no one understands how a foreskin works.

People who never consciously had foreskin have no idea what it's like having it. If they can even remember what it looks like. >.>

Still, mini-guillotines. :x

Rly? :x

Firefly · 2012-04-25, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Vash02

Now you're just being a dick. *ba dum dum tish*

When have I not been a dick?

Originally Posted by Figment

People who never consciously had foreskin have no idea what it's like having it. If they can even remember what it looks like.

I find this entire argument to be completely retarded. And by argument I mean the whole thread but I'm too lazy to go back and change it. I just want to throw that out there (and not AT you, nor am I singling you out).

What follows are my opinions. They are based on my experience. That is all.

I agree with you. Which leads me to my actual point, finally. Saying that it decreases pleasure is fucking stupid. How the fuck would YOU guys know? Have any of you had a foreskin implant in recent memory? Have any of you undergone the chop later in life? No?

Then shut the fuck up. Seriously. Stop using that fucking argument if you want to be taken seriously, Traak. That's like saying that men who don't have a vagina can't handle the pain of childbirth. How the fuck would you even KNOW that? You guys fobbing this argument off on everyone else might as well be arguing about religion and whether or not it's true and whose version is correct.

I am Jewish. I have a circumsized cock. I don't remember having sex with my uncircumcized cock. The only experience I have is with my circumcized cock. I have no basis for comparison. And unless you can answer yes to the questions in the other paragraph, none of you do either. Quoting some stupid internet page doesn't make you right, and it doesn't make them right either unless they can answer that question. And let's face it - there is a dearth of men lining up to tell their story.

And lemme tell you - I don't get any complaints in the bedroom. *I* don't have any complaints in the bedroom. If you do, that's because you're lame. Fix that shit. Better yet don't, so all-stars like me continue being pro. So if there's decreased sensitivity, all you foreskin dudes must be blowing your loads in five seconds with all that sensory overload, lemme tell ya. Unless the effect doesn't even fucking matter in terms of performance.

As for mutilation: I don't remember my own circumcision. I'm not traumatized by it. Clearly that emo kid up there is. Both of my sons, also Jewish, had the same ceremony. Both were done with anesthesia. Neither of them felt any pain. Why? Because they were so doped up they didn't notice. In fact they both fell asleep. I expressed my concerns as a dutiful father and the snipper said even babies who are awake and DON'T have anesthesia (fuggin' tree-huggers) usually scream for about five seconds and then are done with it. I scream like a bitch for days about any sort of cock pain.

And finally: Warborn. Your question about supporters of circumcision versus female genitalia mutilation. Usually I find no issues with the points you raise or how you present them. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. They're almost always well thought-out even if you're playing devil's advocate. I'm sorry, this time it's the most illogical and poorest comparison I've ever heard. Now let me backtrack a second - I don't know anything about labia trimming. I know I've read about clitoris mutilation (which doesn't make me a subject matter expert either). And that's considered torture. The after-effects are, from what I recall, displeasure and even pain whilst having sexual intercourse. FOREVER.

Last time I had sex, there was no displeasure or pain. The first time I had sex there was no displeasure or pain. So the difference, I should think, is clear - at least to me. Circumcision may be a body-altering procedure and that may qualify it as genital mutilation. It is not, in the spirit of the word, the same type as hacking off a clitoris or scouring the vagina with steel wool so that a woman can't enjoy getting laid.

In one single post, I'm done with four pages of talk about cocks where not a single one of you can tell me what it's like having sex with an uncircumcised penis versus a circumcised penis - except Traak because we all know he has experience with both types of cocks. From the receiving end.

Figment · 2012-04-25, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I agree with you. Which leads me to my actual point, finally. Saying that it decreases pleasure is fucking stupid. How the fuck would YOU guys know? Have any of you had a foreskin implant in recent memory? Have any of you undergone the chop later in life? No?

Luckily no and I agree it's impossible for us to personally have experienced the difference as well. As such, we have to rely on sources like these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...f_circumcision

It's still an interesting read and the effects are all over the spectrum from positive to negative on both accounts.

However, I think the main problem a lot of people have with it is that it's not really a conscious choice. Why should other people have any say in what parts of your body you can keep?

Firefly · 2012-04-25, 01:12 PM

I didn't want to come back into a thread about dicks. I really didn't. But I'm bored and taking a huge diarrhoea-laden shit. So I'm typing this message as I'm shitting water. I may splash a little on the bottom of my craptop.

Originally Posted by Figment

Luckily no and I agree it's impossible for us to personally have experienced the difference as well. As such, we have to rely on sources like these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...f_circumcision

It's still an interesting read and the effects are all over the spectrum from positive to negative on both accounts.

This is one of those great mysteries of life - sorry guys. Jury's out and it's never coming back on this one. Until you find a guy who has experience banging chicks with a cut cock and an uncut cock, and will say one way or the other, and the majority of them conclude one way or the other, we just don't know. But NOBODY remembers their circumcision as an infant. Is cutting off a snip of skin mutilation? Sure, in the most technical sense of the word. But so is trimming my fingernails, if you want to start applying terminology. So is cutting myself shaving. Or shaving in general. Or clipping a dog's ears or tail. Or getting a tattoo or a piercing. Getting plastic surgery. Botox injections. Collagen implants. Tit implants. Breast reductions. Gastric bypass. Any of that shit. Or people who are actually in to body modification like getting their tongue forked. Which leads me to this:

Originally Posted by Figment

However, I think the main problem a lot of people have with it is that it's not really a conscious choice. Why should other people have any say in what parts of your body you can keep?

My parents elected to have my appendix removed. They elected to get my wisdom teeth removed. They elected all sorts of things for me. Maybe I wanted to keep my appendix. Maybe I wanted to keep my wisdom teeth - have I gotten dumber or smarter? Do wisdom teeth even work properly, or have they fallen silent as our society gets collectively more stupider and more entitled? Why is the sky blue?

Obviously that paragraph just devolved into something irrelevant. Hyperbole? Conjecture? Stupidity? All of the above? Probably. But really, it's irrelevant. Your parents determine what happens to you, for the most part, until you're emancipated or 18. That's life. It's been that way since the first time a child was born. Change the system or don't change it.

Which leads me to my final point. Who the fuck are YOU people to tell me what I can and cannot do with my freedom? You don't wanna cut your foreskin or your kids' foreskins? Don't fucking do it. Stay the fuck out of my private life. The end.

Vash02 · 2012-04-25, 02:41 PM

There are clear medical reasons for removing the appendix and the wisdom teeth but none for the foreskin.

No one is arguing an adult cant get a circumcision. But a child is not a peice of property to do with as you will, they are a vulnerable person who the parents have a responsibility to take care of.
People wont stand by and do nothing when a parent abuses their child. Why should they do nothing when they take a knife to their child?

ArcIyte · 2012-04-25, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

This is one of those great mysteries of life - sorry guys. Jury's out and it's never coming back on this one. Until you find a guy who has experience banging chicks with a cut cock and an uncut cock, and will say one way or the other, and the majority of them conclude one way or the other, we just don't know.

Uh, yes we do? Nerve endings transmit sensations to the brain. Fewer nerve endings means fewer sensations.

I dare any proponents of circumcision to read this and continue to defend it: http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_lost.html