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View Poll Results: What class should carry ammo packs?
LA (as currently implemented) 60 21.90%
HA 69 25.18%
Engineer 115 41.97%
Medic 19 6.93%
Infiltrator 2 0.73%
MAX 9 3.28%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-09, 12:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #61
Saintlycow
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Dont give it to the HA. He can just find a secluded spot, and use his infinite ammunition to kill tanks, people and jets.
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Old 2012-06-09, 12:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #62
Dagron
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by WildVS View Post
This is why a MAX needs to be less mobile than we saw in those E3 streams. You are right. They basically moved around like a beefy HA and that needs to change. In PS1 that's how it worked. MAX had heavy hitting power but he was cumbersome, HA had less hitting power but he was more agile.
Yeah, that too.


Originally Posted by Saintlycow View Post
Dont give it to the HA. He can just find a secluded spot, and use his infinite ammunition to kill tanks, people and jets.
Nah, they'll be spoted easily with rocket trails/bullet tracers. I still don't want HAs to have it, but for other reasons.

Last edited by Dagron; 2012-06-09 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 12:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #63
Immigrant
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
You don't have to worry about it. If someone around you yells "I need ammo!" you hit your "drop ammo" key and you're done.
And if I drop med pack on accident (which goes to toilet that way) and that will happen too often if you have multiples support roles in one class. Also you will have to bring ammo to guys in need if they are pinned down and I just don't see a medic doing this or being suitable for that role.

Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
Right, but lets be realistic here. Most people will hoard that extra ammo for themselves, you saw it happen all the time in the E3 streams. They chew through their own ammo pools with reckless abandon because they know they can just drop more when they run out. Especially if they know all the other HA/LA guys are carrying extra ammo too. Moving that ability to a support class just makes more sense all around.
Hogging ammo will happen in any case but that not the matter of class and depends on individual players tbh. Hoarders will always hoard so that really not an argument and it's best thing (least damaging) imo to give the Ammo packs to the class that will need it the most and I believe that will be HA.

However the hoarding tactic should generally be less successful in any case since two guns are always better than one in any given moment. Your chances to defeat enemy forces and get to next resupply terminal will be greater if you share your ammo with guys who have run out of it.

HA would be more willing to exchange with other HAs when they needed to maximize their efficiency and reciprocate, they would need medics for healing them up and reviving them so they would need to share with them too, they would need engineers to set-up covers/turrets for them and repair their vehicles, also they would need LAs to scout for them so they are the class that should actually be least prone to hogging the ammo. HAs won't be able to hide somewhere high and drop ammo pack to resupply in safety so even if they don't intend to share ammo packs they drop will be more accessible to everyone else when compared to LAs. Also LAs will be able to buzz like the bees around HAs (as well as other faster classes) waiting for them to drop Ammo packs and they should do it the most often while I really can't see HA trailing the LA or any other class to pick up a part his ammo drop.

Originally Posted by Saintlycow View Post
Dont give it to the HA. He can just find a secluded spot, and use his infinite ammunition to kill tanks, people and jets.
Another ***** unable and/or impolite enough to read an OP prior to posting, please both reading and manners are taught in elementary school so do it before posting nonsense and making yourself look ridiculous next time. Sorry but that really ticks me off and it happens a lot here.

Last edited by Immigrant; 2012-06-09 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 12:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #64
Gandhi
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
True, the MAX takes their role, but those cost resources, while HAs don't.
They also have a cooldown, can't drive vehicles, have no vertical movement at all and don't have a recharging shield, making any damage they take permanent.

And like WildVS said, they need to be less agile than they are now. I think it's also a bit daft that you can squad spawn as a MAX, but oh well. Point is instead of trying to give HA more gimmicks that it has no business having why don't we focus on making the MAX less like the HA's role?
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #65
Vetto
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
True, the MAX takes their role, but those cost resources while HAs don't.
And i agree engis already have enough... i'm an advocate of the LAs rights.
I disagree on LA, LA are scouts, and ambushers the Max mortal enemy, and when a squad REALLY needs ammo they don't need some one who will fly off, also in many times during the E3 demo I never saw many LA giving ammo to other, just flying to the top of a building dropping ammo then ambushing.

If anything there Worse then giving the HA the ammo pack, as for the max thing your right they will be costly, but again in a game this big there will ALL way be a max around to fill a roll that needed.


Originally Posted by WildVS View Post
This is why a MAX needs to be less mobile than we saw in those E3 streams. You are right. They basically moved around like a beefy HA and that needs to change. In PS1 that's how it worked. MAX had heavy hitting power but he was cumbersome, HA had less hitting power but he was more agile.

I agree some what, it needs to be toned down but not as bad as PS1 as A lot of max stopped being used cause they were just to easy to ambush they need to find a middle between ps1 and ps2 E3 demo.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #66
Haro
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


I still think it should be Light Assault for several reasons:
1. Every class (with the exception of maxes) is designed for a dual role: A combat role and a support role. For engineers and medics, it's obvious, Heavy Assault is also AV, Infiltrator is also sniper, and light assault is also resupply.

2. I could replicate the same "camp on a roof" strategy with just about any class besides the Light Assault. Maybe not as easily, but I believe it would be even more imbalanced if a class like heavy assault or engineers had it. Now, this is just a guess, but I believe that the medic and engineer classes have longer range weapons than Light Assault (I know Heavy Assault has it) and the Light Assault looks to have a sub-machine gun or a carbine. Of all the classes, they have the least offensive capability from range, and nearly the lowest armor.

3. I think the concerns are over blown. Ammo mechanics aren't fully in place, and I've pointed out in other threads that there are many ways to easily balance this. On top of that, I know I saw in the live stream that ammo packs only refill a few clips at a time. On top of that, it's not like roofs are that safe. Snipers, AI maxes, and aircraft are hard counters to the Light Assault and can easily take care of them on many roof tops. On top of that, flanking from enemy light assaults is also very common, and I saw very few people last long on those roofs.

Light Assault can do many things, but I really don't think camping is one of them. Only Beta will really tell for sure.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #67
SUBARU
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Immigrant View Post
And I drop med pack on accident (which goes to toilet that way) and that will happen quite often if you have multiples support roles in one class. Also you will have to bring ammo to guys in need if they are pinned down and I just don't see a medic doing this or being suitable for that role.



Hogging ammo will happen in any case but that not the matter of class and depends on individual players tbh. Hoarders will always hoard so that really not an argument and it's best thing (least damaging) imo to give the Ammo packs to the class that will need it the most and I believe that will be HA.

However the hoarding tactic should generally be less successful in any case since two guns are always better than one in any given moment. Your chances to defeat enemy forces and get to next resupply terminal will be greater if you share your ammo with guys who have run out of it.

HA would be more willing to exchange with other HAs when they needed to maximize their efficiency and reciprocate, they would need medics for healing them up and reviving them so they would need to share with them too, they would need engineers to set-up covers/turrets for them and repair their vehicles, also they would need LAs to scout for them so they are the class that should actually be least prone to hogging the ammo. HAs won't be able to hide somewhere high and drop ammo pack to resupply in safety so even if they don't intend to share ammo packs they drop will be most accessible to everyone else.
Yes ,but a person that play's a classic support class will be more willing to support others and not just himself
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #68
Dagron
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Immigrant View Post
imo to give the Ammo packs to the class that will need it the most and I believe that will be HA.
Why do you refuse to listen to other people's arguments?

What's the point of ammo drop if the one dropping it will use it every time? Just make their ammo reserves bigger and end ammo packs in that case.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #69
Vetto
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by WildVS View Post
Yeap I agree. Need to find that sweetspot. Beta right?
Exactly, got to remember Max got to worry about LA jet packs now, so there going to need a bit more turn-ability if anything else, And while yes the VS Max had jet packs back in the day they suffered as well from the hard turning all MAX do, the LA on the other hand will not.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #70
Dagron
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Haro View Post
I still think it should be Light Assault for several reasons:
1. Every class (with the exception of maxes) is designed for a dual role: A combat role and a support role. For engineers and medics, it's obvious, Heavy Assault is also AV, Infiltrator is also sniper, and light assault is also resupply.
^This.
I feel people are too dazled with "zomg jetpacks, nerf everything else!!" to realize just jump packs don't make a class.
As a LA i'd like the option to be a support class alternatively to being a harassing scout.



Originally Posted by Haro View Post
2. I could replicate the same "camp on a roof" strategy with just about any class besides the Light Assault. Maybe not as easily, but I believe it would be even more imbalanced if a class like heavy assault or engineers had it. Now, this is just a guess, but I believe that the medic and engineer classes have longer range weapons than Light Assault (I know Heavy Assault has it) and the Light Assault looks to have a sub-machine gun or a carbine. Of all the classes, they have the least offensive capability from range, and nearly the lowest armor.
Camping on this game doesn't seem very viable to me. If they get on a roof, snipers/aircrafts will spot them sooner rather than later. I've already seen this discussion about the infiltrators: being able to get on a roof is not game breaking like in other games (e.g. BF3).

Last edited by Dagron; 2012-06-09 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #71
Immigrant
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
Why do you refuse to listen to other people's arguments?
I listen , however I'm not really convinced. Answer this from which class will it be most easiest to pick the Ammo drop if the guy playing it is not bothering to share? Answer is...... (please be honest here)

HEAVY ASSAULT, why - they will be on front line the most since that's where the action will be and it makes no sense for HA being in the rear, they will be running out of ammo the most (this is my presumption however I believe it will be true due to role of HAs) and thus dropping the ammo packs most frequently, they will be in least secluded places then the most (on the front lines), they will be easiest to find (on the front lines again) and they are easiest to catch up with since they are the slowest infantry class.

If somebody wants to hog the Ammo he will find a way to do it but HA will be least successful in try to do so.

Is something said here incorrect?

Last edited by Immigrant; 2012-06-09 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #72
kaffis
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
Camping on this game doesn't seem very viable to me. If they get on a roof, snipers/aircrafts will spot them sooner rather than later. I've already seen this discussion about the infiltrators: being able to get on a roof is not game breaking like in other games (e.g. BF3).
Not to mention, as soon as they get spotted on the roof, anybody with a legitimate rifle will out-accuracy/range their carbines and kill them with ease. Roof-shooting is a flanking hit-and-fade tactic for LA, not a dedicated camping position.

At least, it will be once people play for a week and learn to look up once in a while.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #73
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Immigrant View Post
I listen , however I'm not really convinced. Answer this from which class will it be most easiest to pick the Ammo drop it the guys playing it is not bothering to share? Answer is...... (please be honest here)

HEAVY ASSAULT, why - they will be on front line the most since that's where the action will be and it makes no sense for HA being in the rear, they will be running out of ammo the most and thus dropping the ammo packs most frequently, the will be in least secluded places then the most (on the front lines), they will be easiest to find (on the front lines again) and they are easiest to catch up with since they are the slowest infantry class.
You are also neglecting this: what do you do when the ammo drop is spent? You run back.
As a HA, it will take you longer than as a LA. Not to mention you would be leaving your post on the front lines, where as a support LA you'd be doing exactly what your role is supposed to.


Originally Posted by Immigrant View Post
Is something said here incorrect?

If somebody wants to hog the Ammo he will find a way to do it but HA will be least successful in try to do so.
This. Any class can hog the ammo with the same ease: ignoring your teammates' requests for ammo & drop + pick it up yourself is something anyone can do.

Last edited by Dagron; 2012-06-09 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #74
Electrofreak
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Vetto View Post
Perhaps, but at the same point, they can't heal them selves, they can't repair them selves, and they can't revive them selves, It's giving them a roll in a squad to fill, and if they want to be effective they will want to work with other members, I mean to be fair there not even the metal shield or heavy hitter of the group that the MAX.
Their role is assault.

A MAX role is to dish out firepower and take firepower. They can equip 2 very specialized weapons depending upon what they are planning on attacking.

A Heavy Assault's role is a bit more versatile; they trade pure the pure firepower of a MAX for less firepower that's more adaptable to the circumstances. They're more mobile and better suited to rapid deployment by vehicle or aircraft.

I almost preferred the older MAX to the newer ones. I see the ability to equip a different weapon on each arm starting to infringe just a little bit upon the HA role (since PS1 MAX had very specific roles) but at least there's a trade-up the MAX has to make for that versatility.

In any case, HA has a specific role, and that's just being fairly capable of dealing with whatever happens to happen on the battlefield. They are versatile and good to have in combat environments where infantry, vehicles, and aircraft are all present in a battlezone.

That said, they have a weakness like every class does, and that's a tendency to go through ammunition quickly. They should have to rely upon another class to support that weakness.

Infiltrator
Role: Scout, Long or short range infantry combatant
Pros: Ability to avoid notice and strike infantry from long range or very short range
Cons: Low survivability if located

Light Assault
Role: Shock trooper, mid to short range combatant
Pros: Ability to ignore obstacles including many base defenses, rapidly engage/disengage in combat.
Cons: Low defenses

Combat Medic
Role: Medical support, anti-infantry
Pros: Ability to support teammates by healing / reviving soldiers. Good mid-range anti-infantry combatant.
Cons: Vulnerable when providing support

Engineer
Role: Repair / resupply support, area denial
Pros: Ability to support teammates by repairing and resupplying them. Able to deploy mines and turrets at chokepoints to counter vehicles and infantry.
Cons: Vulnerable when providing support

Heavy Assault
Role: Effective Anti-infantry, Anti-vehicular, Anti-aircraft soldier
Pros: Ability to combat a wide variety of different targets at medium to long ranges. Somewhat durable.
Cons: Reliant upon support classes

MAX
Role: Specialized weapons platform.
Pros: Good survivability. Can fit 2 weapons simultaneously that independently can be very effective versus infantry, vehicles, or aircraft.
Cons: Weak against targets that it is not equipped to combat. Limited ability to use vehicles, reliant upon infantry support.
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Last edited by Electrofreak; 2012-06-09 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #75
Gandhi
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
This. Any class can hog the ammo with the same ease: drop + pick it up is something anyone can do.
Yes, but an engineer or medic is going to have a lot less incentive to hoard ammo than an offensive class. They're already playing a support role, if they didn't want to support they'd have picked an offensive class instead.

I just don't understand what's so hard about this concept. Am I missing something obvious? Honest question.
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