So You Can't Kick a Faction Out?

[megamold]

Originally Posted by amblingalong

Battles, no. But the war, yes, because devoting troops to fighting in the south against the TR (for example) means being pushed back in the north (against the VS).

well that will always be true, this was also true in ps1, but gaining one area might be better than losing another.
just because you are being attacked somewhere doesnt mean you have to go and defend it if the battle elsewhere is more important.

i remember when i played ps1, we used to take small teams out to capture some empty bases we didnt really need so that we could force the other empire to come take them back.
this would mean we created an advantage where the main battle is since there would be less troops.
if the enemy decided that they didnt need those bases anyway a part of the main force could be sent to start taking those bases with more effect. this made the enemy force a choice that you masterminded, at wich point you gain the upperhand in the war for that continent.

also consider that the hexes you own on another continent might be worth more to you then the hexes you are losing in another.
basicly making the descicion to be pushed out of a continent just to gain a larger advantage on another.
this was done in ps1

the main difference with the foothold is that you no longer have to backtrack trough the bases to get a link up to that continent.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Turdicus

I think what will be the deciding factor will be just how far an empire is able to push or be pushed back. It can either be fairly uncommon to push someone to their foothold, in which case it would be really cool to fight over those rare areas, or it will be nigh impossible, which just isn't efficient gameplay design.

This. And this is something that just can't be tested until beta. It involves sort of mass psychology as well as seeing how big an effect having six hundred guys pushed closer to their foothold truly can have. I think you're right about the target, though -- having it rare so that it's satisfying and really cool is good, but it needs to happen periodically.

[Angry Beaver]

I think it gets more continents more playtime. Some continents never really got fought over because the sanctuary linked to it and thus the faction over reacted every time someone tried to take it. With enough continents it's not going to be a big issue as it'd be impossible to have that many evenly balanced frontlines on all 3 empires.

[Mechzz]

For this not to happen (and it could) I think we need to trust in the medium to large outfits. With the new cap system where you're handicapped by not owning the adjacent hexes, you'll need a largish force to hold an away-from-the-front-line base. Enter the biggish outfits that can field the troops for this.

I also see a role for smaller spec-ops teams since they can at least capture a spawn or use squad spawn cleverly to distract enemies to gain a crucial advantage.

In other words, if the game stagnates it's because we're playing with insufficient imagination!

[Zolan]

The solution is quite simple.

1 foothold per faction, based on a single "home" continent for that faction.

This means that a faction can be completely pushed off of a continent, but they will still, always, have a single foothold on the home continent to fall back to.

All other warp gates, and those on non-home continents would be neutral and could be used by anyone to get from one continent to the other corresponding continents.

The current foothold system makes the entire game seem like a series of small wars which are boxed into single continent arenas, as you can NEVER push the enemy off of the continent no matter how hard you try.

Players need to feel like they are making progress in the big picture, and moving from one location to the next because they have won several victories over the other factons. Rather than fighting over the same bases every single day for an eternity, there needs to be movement across the overall map and the different environments.

The home foothold system as I've suggested would allow the factions to have one final unconquerable redoubt, but still allow the iconic continent locks and map locks from the original Planetside that made it feel like you had actually "won" something over the other factions.

Hopefully the current foothold system gets changed by launch, as it's going to be a complete letdown if they go forward with it.

[Runlikethewind]

Originally Posted by Mechzz

In other words, if the game stagnates it's because we're playing with insufficient imagination!

Agreed. I think there will be enough of us on the game who want to keep it lively so that we won't let it turn into a stagnate three-way zergfest. I am really not to concerned about this worry.

[CutterJohn]

If you ever manage to cap a continent, you get to pick the new foothold.

Easy peesy. Doesn't mess with what anyone else owns or anything.





Stop with the foothold hate. It is absolutely NO different than the warpgates. None whatsoever. You could never push people off continents in PS1 either. They always had a spawn, could always drain a base, cap a tower, etc.

[amblingalong]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Stop with the foothold hate. It is absolutely NO different than the warpgates. None whatsoever. You could never push people off continents in PS1 either. They always had a spawn, could always drain a base, cap a tower, etc.

With the major difference that, depending on what was going on elsewhere, your spawn wasn't always in the exact same corner of the map, endlessly.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Stop with the foothold hate. It is absolutely NO different than the warpgates.

Except for the part where footholds aren't warp gates and warp gates aren't footholds.

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by Zolan

The solution is quite simple.

1 foothold per faction, based on a single "home" continent for that faction.

This means that a faction can be completely pushed off of a continent, but they will still, always, have a single foothold on the home continent to fall back to.

I did read all of this Zolan, but look at the bit I've quoted. Now think that once your empire is pushed completely off a continent, the up-to 666 players who got pushed off have potentially nowhere to go to on the other 2 continents, which might already be at capacity.

Now imagine that this happens to the character you love and have spent weeks and months levelling up but now cannot log back on. And imagine your outfit gets split over 2 or 3 different servers trying to log back in.

Really, continent-locking can't happen with only 3 continents and a game that's likely to play with full servers cos it's so fricking awesome!

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Zolan

Except for the part where footholds aren't warp gates and warp gates aren't footholds.

They are where your empire spawns into the map.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by Mechzz

I did read all of this Zolan, but look at the bit I've quoted. Now think that once your empire is pushed completely off a continent, the up-to 666 players who got pushed off have potentially nowhere to go to on the other 2 continents, which might already be at capacity.

Now imagine that this happens to the character you love and have spent weeks and months levelling up but now cannot log back on. And imagine your outfit gets split over 2 or 3 different servers trying to log back in.

Really, continent-locking can't happen with only 3 continents and a game that's likely to play with full servers cos it's so fricking awesome!

I'm pretty sure they will add more continents later on, up to a number similar to the original Planetside.

Regardless... warp-gates can be used as entry points (as suggested) but they are not singular locations which belong to a single empire forever.

This solves the endless "foothold" problem and still allows access to the continent.

I'll reply later, I have class in 10 min.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

If you ever manage to cap a continent, you get to pick the new foothold.

Easy peesy. Doesn't mess with what anyone else owns or anything.

I agree with this. The only problem is the 3 continents at the start. Numerically, you would need 4 continents for the "cap a continent, you get to pick the new foothold" idea. I had the same idea myself, but it would need 4 continents so that the empires could play musical chairs with the extra continent.

There is another solution though. One that would work with even 3 continents.

Regions. Clusters of hexes on the map which provide global bonuses when you take every hex in the region. It would be similar to continental benefits and capping a continent in the first game.

The nice bonus would be that instead of having to cap the entire continent to pick a new foothold, you would only need to cap the region directly surrounding an enemy foothold.

I think that a region system could solve multiple problems:
- Map stagnation.
- Being unable to push an empire entirely off of a continent (at least temporarily)
- Boring T intersections being formed in the middle of the map a lot of the time
- Empires having no reason to fight on a continent once they stop earning resources on it (region benefits that applied to everyone in your empire globally would give incentive to push back into a continent).

[amblingalong]

Originally Posted by Zolan

Regardless... warp-gates can be used as entry points (as suggested) but they are not singular locations which belong to a single empire forever.

That's the solution I like the most.

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by amblingalong

That's the solution I like the most.

Am I missing something, or are people just not getting that if an empire gets continent locked then up to 666 players will need to go and find another server to play on, potentially ruining their evening?