Liberators too strong? - Page 5

Dragonskin · 2012-12-24, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

But anyway, the whole artillery from the sky thing on a Lib is broken, I think everyone knows that, otherwise, Sony wouldn't have so much income from Dalton and Zephyr sales.

Because you know how much income they generate off Lib weapons compared to anything else in the game....

Actually I would say that HE turrets for tanks probably sell better because you don't need a good pilot to fly your kitted lib... or you have to let someone else shoot with your new gun.. which a lot of people don't like either.. because they bought that gun.

The MBTs and Lightnings can immediately use their HE turrets.

NewSith · 2012-12-24, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Because you know how much income they generate off Lib weapons compared to anything else in the game....

Actually I would say that HE turrets for tanks probably sell better because you don't need a good pilot to fly your kitted lib... or you have to let someone else shoot with your new gun.. which a lot of people don't like either.. because they bought that gun.

The MBTs and Lightnings can immediately use their HE turrets.

Liberators don't usually come stuffed with random gunners, mostly because without the ability to see what they are aiming at you can't provide a proper angle.

Plus there are lots of support dudes, like myself, who love to watch their gunners make kills and they consider that their own achievement. Though, I actually prefer to be able to get shot out of the sky, hence I'm using Shredder and I even don't have Dalton, nor Zephyr purchased/certed.

P.S. Yeah, and I don't need to know their income generation to see that only one out of fifty libs in the sky is equipped with Shredder.

Fear The Amish · 2012-12-24, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Because you know how much income they generate off Lib weapons compared to anything else in the game....

Actually I would say that HE turrets for tanks probably sell better because you don't need a good pilot to fly your kitted lib... or you have to let someone else shoot with your new gun.. which a lot of people don't like either.. because they bought that gun.

The MBTs and Lightnings can immediately use their HE turrets.

yeah but you can actually reach and KILL a HE tank were as a lib just goes "oh that tickles" and flys away to repair then comes back.

Dragonskin · 2012-12-24, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

yeah but you can actually reach and KILL a HE tank were as a lib just goes "oh that tickles" and flys away to repair then comes back.

Surprised you guys play the game honestly. Every day something is OP. If you look most things in the game are OP outside of infantry. Threads about maxes (specifically NC maxs), tanks, air.... is this game fun for anyone?

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-24, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

Yes, and it is easy to say on the other side "I saw it killing 3 of my guys and then it flew away when I hit it! It's OP!" regardless of this very thing taken out of the sky before it could land to repair.

But anyway, the whole artillery from the sky thing on a Lib is broken, I think everyone knows that, otherwise, Sony wouldn't have so much income from Dalton and Zephyr sales.

If 3 libs are flying together they are only going to get shot down if they are attacked by a swarm of ESF or if they do something totally reckless.
Mostly Libs die when the players are done farming carefully and decide to get crazy risky because they are ready do something different.

The Messenger · 2012-12-24, 03:21 PM

I don't think the weapons are the issue, it's how agile they are when a chassis is fully upgraded. Lately, I've seen libs that can turn as well as an ESF which makes taking them down with air very difficult. The lib just goes belly up and continues to fly sideways while the gunner takes out enemy air. If the ESF isn't a very skilled pilot at out maneuvering, he's going to get shot down. Add the fact that an enemy fighter maybe trying to protect their lib and it becomes even more difficult. I don't know what chassis allows a lib to fly so fast sideways but I'm going to assume it's the High-G Airframe since it likely involves vertical thrusters. It's not the weapons that are imbalanced IMO, it's the upgraded maneuverability with the massive amount of armor a lib has.

Then there's the racer frame, a reaver without a speed upgrade is slower than a lib with one. I'm pretty sure once that hits the main forum, it's going to cause an uproar with NC players wanting a speed buff to the stock reaver. It's bad enough that their speed is absolute garbage even with racer 3 chassis, but now libs are faster? Uh oh

boogy · 2012-12-24, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Surprised you guys play the game honestly. Every day something is OP. If you look most things in the game are OP outside of infantry. Threads about maxes (specifically NC maxs), tanks, air.... is this game fun for anyone?

I play this game a lot, all hours, day and night. I both squad up and go solo. Because of this I feel I have a good perspective of air to ground balance. I've played through all of beta as well and have seen this happen before. I've seen how better this game is when it's infantry and ground centric and how liberators have always caused issues for balance. I know the only time libs aren't a a complete problem are during peek hours when servers are full. This is because you will have organized squads that do take on air. I also know that those peek hour windows are getting smaller every day, and that outfits and squads are starting to go air more and more, causing further reduction in the fps aspect of this game. I also do know SOE ain't dumb and will do what needs to be done to get this game back on track.

I complain because I care and love this game, seeing ps2 grow and get better and better in beta has been one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had in my life. We're just experiencing a balance set back right now, it's our duty not to ignore it. The devs want feedback, this is what they ask for, my god we are giving it to them.

RykerStruvian · 2012-12-25, 06:07 PM

I gave up on the ground fighting overall. I'm not bad at it but playing infantry is just farmbait at the moment. I caved in and bought A2A/G2A for my reaver and now I'm going 20:1 :\ Its amazing how big a switch like that could make. Its just nice not being farmed by libs persistently.

Rothnang · 2012-12-26, 01:20 AM

Liberators aren't too strong, they just happen to be a unit of extremes. They either absolutely wreck you, or they spend their entire time running or dying.

People on the ground just don't notice the Liberators when they aren't bombing you to crap, so they assume that's all Liberators do.

In reality Liberators spend most of their time running from fighter attacks, getting shooed off by AA guns, and flying around looking for a place where they can actually start bombing without getting killed.

I really think people need to ride in a Liberator for a bit before they judge it too harshly. It does have amazing firepower, and it's armor is solid, but it's also huge, visible from a mile away, not very maneuverable, and extremely vulnerable to a lot of different things.

Also the Liberator is the one single vehicle in the game that really thrives on a team of people who communicate and play well together, nerfing it to the point where that doesn't give you at least some edge just wouldn't be right.

KaskaMatej · 2012-12-26, 05:02 AM

An outfit mate has a way to take down Liberators:

The Messenger · 2012-12-26, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

An outfit mate has a way to take down Liberators:

Damn nice, it's times like that the game needs a kill cam, I know they were wondering, wtf? Probably got reported too, but well worth it. This would get my vote for a "kill of the week" thread if we had one.

If you ever pull this off again consider going over to the pilot canopy and just standing on it. I don't know if the game will actually let him see you but imagine what he would be thinking.

yadda · 2012-12-26, 05:46 AM

I hate liberators with an extreme passion but they are not too strong. There is just a severe lack of ways for ground units to deal with air so we just get victimized by them.

Skyguard is an airchav perpetuated myth, that thing is beyond trash. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If anyone says it's good/acceptable you should begin questioning their ability as a player and the standards of which they hold themselves to.
Mounted AA turret is just asking to be killed, slightly above skyguard but still not acceptable.
Burster MAX. The only real AA that does any good, still a thankless profitless job and requires SC or certs you will never see again just to be viable.

Combating the air just simply isn't worth it so people don't do it and that's why Libs dominate, not because they are good, but because of our inabilities to combat them.

Assist · 2012-12-26, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by NoXousX

NoX's solution?
Libs need to be faster and more maneuverable with significantly less health.

I don't know that they need to be faster. Cert'd out they move at a decent speed and handle a lot better than most think. Maybe more thrust power, but not top speed.

Less health I agree with. I actually think one of the big problems with liberators is not the low flying ones, they can be destroyed by ground easy enough. It's the ones that are so high that AA and Lock-on can't get them. You have to have ESF's to go after them, and having only one counter to a problem isn't what PS is about. I watched an armor column of 30-40 TR vehicles get demolished in about 2 minutes from 3 Liberators that were flying at ceiling height. It's things like this that need to be fixed.
I'm probably one of the few high BR that is never in air vehicles, I don't understand the value of it tbh, but as a ground fighter I'm never worried about liberators. I get rocked by them sometimes, but it's usually because our offensive force is not balanced for the fight. ESF's tear me up far more often than liberators, personally I feel that Rocket Pods still need to be worked on as every single ESF uses rocket pods these days. When everyone uses one weapon there's a balance issue, imo.

All that said, a TR on Waterson went from 62 to 70+ yesterday because he sat in a lib all day. Something needs to change there IMO. Liberators shouldn't be so dominate against infantry. Tanks/Armor they should annihilate, but infantry not so much.

NewSith · 2012-12-26, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

I don't know that they need to be faster.

This is why:

Originally Posted by Assist

Less health I agree with. I actually think one of the big problems with liberators is not the low flying ones...

As I said many times already, Liberators are not only Daltons and Zephyrs, and I really dislike the fact that people forget about that.

Assist · 2012-12-26, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

As I said many times already, Liberators are not only Daltons and Zephyrs, and I really dislike the fact that people forget about that.

As of the state of the game today, Liberators are indeed only Daltons and Zephyrs. Their main function is a bomber, and those two weapons are their bomber weapons. The speed disagreement is purely opinion.