Does the Prowler really need a nerf?

[JeffBeefjaw]

Amazes me as well that they keep re spawning just to be slayed by vehicles with a far superior position. These sort of k/d's are not possible without numerous players with a death wish.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Figment

Did they ever stop using those then?

Heh yeah I was thinking the same thing. "Since when did they stop using the???".

[ringring]

Originally Posted by JeffBeefjaw

Amazes me as well that they keep re spawning just to be slayed by vehicles with a far superior position. These sort of k/d's are not possible without numerous players with a death wish.

Me too, and it's not difficult for infantry to take out a tank if they have the superior position on the ground.

And when Pella got those kills, no doubt therre were other tanks a little way along that got similar. It must be first day of the Somme type of stuff.

[Gimpylung]

I think we're getting closer to the real issue finally. Idiots who get farmed repeatedly and then rush off to make an [insert weapon] is OP thread.

Buff average player intelligence.

[Satanam]

Well... The Prowler issue will be fixed on GU04, so I don't know why people worry about it right now, as it'll be nerfed to a balanced level (I hope they don't make it an useless MBT, but seems like they'll just make it 2 shots needed to kill a full HP player).
As for Hellfire Rocket Pods, those guys complaining need to understand a bit about aircraft in games (and real life too), they're not made to cause low effect and deal low damage, they're meant to support with medium~high damage, but being easily destructible.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

I think we're getting closer to the real issue finally. Idiots who get farmed repeatedly and then rush off to make an [insert weapon] is OP thread.

Buff average player intelligence.

Tbh, I'm kinda questioning the intelligence of people that think players shouldn't ever leave the spawnroom.

Idiots who farm repeatedly and then rush off to make an "[insert weapon] is NOT OP thread, everyone else is just stupid to not avoid fighting it" post.

Buff average player intelligence indeed.


Is it dangerous to get outside? Yes.

Should you get outside. Yes and no. Yes, because the objective is outside and in order to win that objective must not fall in enemy hands. No, because if you do go outside, you lose. If you don't go outside, you lose.

Conflicting answer: forced to try to get outside despite of obvious danger. Since the objective is more important than K/D, the answer is yes for players who expect the game to actually ALLOW one to win by playing defense en situ, rather than fall back and counter-attack.

If the game doesn't allow its own objectives to be met, the game is flawed.


And before you say "it's intended to be played this way", no, it's not:

"Don't give up, you can still win this!"
"Get out there, the NC needs you!"


Does that sound like: "Give up, spawn somewhere else!" or "Stay inside, wait for the inevitable loss!" ?

I don't think so.



What's wrong here is that players grow accustomed to exploiting bad design and think that adapting to it by ignoring the design flaws and avoiding intended gameplay, removes any grounds for complaints.

Sorry, doesn't work that way Gimpy. You should know better than that.





Do people keep running outside? Of course they do. What else can they try aside from giving up (which includes falling back and letting the facility be captured)? Clearly the fight is not balanced anywhere near fair or fun for both sides (and no, that doesn't at all mean even pops). How the hell could anyone claim this is intended gameplay?

If it was, the devs wouldn't still be looking for ways to fix the game. You don't have to fix what isn't broken. This is broken: they want people to fight over control of these bases, not just take them and retake them. Currently, in most cases there's no fight, there's just slaughter. To a degree Prowler double barrel HE farming is part of the issue, but the base layouts allow it. In fact, all these units with HE allow it in combination with base layout. The frequency of one hit kill, large area of effect rate of fire of a lot of units is from my point of view extremely high. If you have 100m to cross to a CC and your opponent gets 8x2 rounds or a couple clips of 1-10 rounds, each with the capacity to instagib, then I'm sorry, but you'll never be able to make it there. Thus there's a design flaw.

And then even if you get there, you will fail because 1. there's a lot of enemies there 2. even if you clear those out once, they'll come back 3. the tanks and other HE units will fire into that same room (provided there IS a room, rather than an open field area to hold) and kill you anyway.

Of course base layouts are the biggest problem here, but that doesn't mean HE hasn't some OP issues. HE in general, but the Prowler is clearly the best farmer together with the Liberator. Thing with the Prowler is, it's a solo unit.


Look, nobody denies that under the current circumstance, it's better to defend outside of the base. Everyone should know that you can adapt by giving up on it and admitting you failed to defend, even if not by your fault but the game's design. The thing is that players who do want to play the game as intended know damn well there are flaws. People who abuse the flaws tend to ignore them because it's in their favour.




I kinda question if Pella really had fun with the opening vid, or that he grew ashamed of his own success. I would be utterly and horribly ashamed if this was the way I'd go and win fights. Where is the struggle? Where is the effort? Where is the fun of overcoming the resistance by your skill? I know Akapella to be an excellent quality and creative player. To see him reduced to assembly belt gameplay is just sad. :/

[moosepoop]

i maxed out my anchor mode and its normal for me to kill 4-8 infantry in seconds.

many times i have single handedly changed the tide of battle.

so yes, i think the prowler nerf against infantry is needed. we can still kick magrider ass, and thats good enough.

i think the first shot should take away 90% of hp. if it only takes 50% hp, then its not a good idea.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Figment

Tbh, I'm kinda questioning the intelligence of people that think players shouldn't ever leave the spawnroom.

Base designs promote farming.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Base designs promote farming.

Yep. HE design too.


Together you get:




(note the age stamp).

[Gimpylung]

Originally Posted by Figment

Tbh, I'm kinda questioning the intelligence ......... belt gameplay is just sad. :/

Think you're misinterpreting what I meant Figgy. Granted I didn't give you much to go on.

So many threads seem to revolve around OP/UP discussions as if that's the issue with the game.

As you correctly point out, the gameplay is flawed. Base design is atrocious. There is no defensive game, only offense, the only meaningful rewards come from farming, being farmed is foolish, futile and avoidable. NC could have held TI all night and the TR would be the most grateful because of the massive amount of xp they earned from siege farming them.

But, the majority of the players that got farmed by Pella there will likely see the Prowler as the issue and not the ridiculous capture mechanics and terrible design of TI alloys(and the majority of all the other bases).

So like it or not, as the game stands currently, Pella was playing it correctly there and the NC should have all given up on TI and found their own farm. No point holding an outpost thats gonna flipflop a dozen times in a night if all you are doing is providing XP fo the attackers.

It's a crying shame that the game is in this state, and I want the same game you want Figgy.

So I'll stand by my original post. Because if Pella links this to the official forum I'll wager the discussion will be about OP Prowler HE and not about the terrible state of the game design.

[Xaine]

All the boo hoo about the Magrider, while the Prowler can kill one infantry with each of its rounds.

The TR bias has continued from PS1 I see.

Knew I rolled the wrong faction.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Xaine

All the boo hoo about the Magrider, while the Prowler can kill one infantry with each of its rounds.

The TR bias has continued from PS1 I see.

Knew I rolled the wrong faction.

Irony is strong in this one. Faction bias accusations and a factional pity party all in one.

The Magrider can also one shot infantry, but don't let facts stop yah!

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

Think you're misinterpreting what I meant Figgy. Granted I didn't give you much to go on.

So many threads seem to revolve around OP/UP discussions as if that's the issue with the game.

Don't know what's UP, since everything is OP. Well, maybe not G2A. Bit easy to avoid.

As you correctly point out, the gameplay is flawed. Base design is atrocious. There is no defensive game, only offense, the only meaningful rewards come from farming, being farmed is foolish, futile and avoidable. NC could have held TI all night and the TR would be the most grateful because of the massive amount of xp they earned from siege farming them.

Outfit mate of mine checked his xp gain for attacking or defending The Crown on different empires. Attacking got him far more. Probably because you can just sit back at a distance and fire at two sides, one of which showing their butt, one of which firing at the front line troops.

But, the majority of the players that got farmed by Pella there will likely see the Prowler as the issue and not the ridiculous capture mechanics and terrible design of TI alloys(and the majority of all the other bases).

So like it or not, as the game stands currently, Pella was playing it correctly there and the NC should have all given up on TI and found their own farm. No point holding an outpost thats gonna flipflop a dozen times in a night if all you are doing is providing XP fo the attackers.

That still makes the HE extremely easy to spam with though. Even if the base was better designed, anything trying to come out of a more defensible base would still face spam.

It's a crying shame that the game is in this state, and I want the same game you want Figgy.

So I'll stand by my original post. Because if Pella links this to the official forum I'll wager the discussion will be about OP Prowler HE and not about the terrible state of the game design.

Oh I understood Pella's OP and I catch your drift (too much focus on the single factor), but in my mind it's a bit of a combination of factors, including HE spam. But yes, base design should have accounted for splash by placing the splashable areas further from the merlons.

Though an even bigger issue to me is not the HE design itself, but the sheer amount of it due to the sheer amount of tanks. Because Pella isn't the only tank out there. Every day I see 30 tanks or more drive towards a single outpost. It's just ridiculous and hampers tank play (traffic jams, ramming) and infantry play (people getting TKed by accident, too large a volume of tanks to fight, too little incentive for infantry fighting).

(OP is kinda the case with rocket pods though: too accurate, too large a clip IMO, perhaps a little bit too splashy. Too soloable and rewarding unit right now, I mean, it kills AA MAXes just a bit faster than the MAX kills them if both start firing at the same time - which in case of a decent pilot, should be normal procedure. Can be nerfed a bit if it's used for AV (larger targets))

[Takoita]

+1 to pretty much all Figment said here.

Also, HE is insane regardless on which tank it is installed. The problem with it (besides damage bleeding through walls bug) is that HE still deals way too much damage to armor for something that is supposed to be an AI speciality. And that reload speed nerf was a bandaid fix that didn't change the number of people rolling HE anyway. Anything else is base design problem.

I feel the same in regards to frag grenade changes which, IMHO, were completely unnecessary. Yes, flak armor is way too important to allow many of the other options to take its place but that could've been solved by either improving their effectiveness or delegating half of them into another brand new slot (or both).

Rocket pods could use some adjusting though.

[Xaine]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Irony is strong in this one. Faction bias accusations and a factional pity party all in one.

The Magrider can also one shot infantry, but don't let facts stop yah!

The Prowler can one shot infantry, with both of the shots it fires - in the time a Magrider can fire one.

This means that the Prowler has 100% more potential to kill infantry.

Not sure how you can dispute it.

But don't let the facts stop yah!