we need to see the scat max stats. ( devs please read)

[Maidere]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

So in that same vein maidere are we also going to look at the tr and vs maxes against the nc in more open bases then?

It's not broken merely high specialised. The stats you are wanting op need to be the overall stats and for all max weapons and all empires, broken down in to the individual hexes so we can pick apart just how situational each max is.

This kind of "specialization" is not very good for the game, because if we will imagine that meta will be brought in at some point and the game will become less of "zerg everything around" NC will simply hold all Biolabs 24/7 and hardly will go anywhere else.
There is a reason people are whining about pump-actions and there is definitely reason people are whining about shotgun wielding machine of death that can endure a lot of bullets + can be used as a cover.
Another problem is Biolab's poor design though.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Sifer2

You already have Slugs for it which in theory gives you a ranged option at the expense of damage. Though from what I understand just using Dual Falcons is even more effective for range lol.

The truth is MAX's in general are a close range class. Give the TR/VS MAX a whirl in the VR training, and you will see that's the case. The same areas the NC MAX is strongest is also the areas the TR/VS MAX are strongest. It's just the NC version is vastly better because killing instantly is better than killing over a few seconds time in a shooter. An while you might say that there is a sweet spot of around 20m where a TR/VS MAX can beat a ScatMAX in a fair fight. This is negated thanks to Charge. It takes only a moment to charge an enemy MAX then kill them in a few shots. There is little they can do to counter this since by the time they even realize you charged on their screen an begin to turn around, and try to charge away they are nearly dead.

Weve all seen the video that conclusively shows that outside of 10 meters the scat max might as well be shooting spitballs. So in your opinion the nc should be relegated to using our av falcons against infantry. Even if I was to use slugs I am still stuck with a grand total of fourteen rounds of ammo in my magazines.
Now I would totally agree that slugs would be fine if each clip could hold fifty of them.

[Stardouser]

We need equivalents to cycler and quasar. Different but balanced just isn't all it's cracked up to be, and that applies to overall balance in PS2.

[Sturmhardt]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

MAX against MAX K vs Calendar Day
MAX Kills per life vs Calendar Day
% MAX Kills vs Range Killed for a given week
% of MAX death vs Killing Blow (i.e. MAX, Launcher, C4, Vehicle)

Max vs Max kills would not mean anything as well. NC pulls their AI max pretty much only in biolabs since it's nearly useless anywhere else. NC maxes can kill many other maxes in the biolab, while all other maxes can kill lots of infantry EVERYWHERE else on the map. So TR and VS maxes will probably have high kill counts of infantry and low kill counts of other maxes.

All these numbers don't really say anything of substance about the matter of discussion here. It worked for the tanks/the magrider because tanks are very evenly distributed over the whole map everywhere in all factions and all tanks can attack at long, medium and short range. The boundary conditions were basically the same, so you could compare statistical figures with ease. Since the NC max is used in totally different ways than the other two, that makes a meaningful statistical comparison impossible. Comparing TR and VS max would work though.

[Shamrock]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Weve all seen the video that conclusively shows that outside of 10 meters the scat max might as well be shooting spitballs. So in your opinion the nc should be relegated to using our av falcons against infantry. Even if I was to use slugs I am still stuck with a grand total of fourteen rounds of ammo in my magazines. Now I would totally agree that slugs would be fine if each clip could hold fifty of them.

In the majority of indoor fights engineer resupply is available, negating the low mag size/and capacity as an issue. Indeed in most base/tower defenses as an NC player I have had up to 3 engineers repping me and dropping a constant flow of ammo. Mag size was never a problem, the only thing that slowed me down chewing up infantry was reload time.

[Shamrock]

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Max vs Max kills would not mean anything as well. NC pulls their AI max pretty much only in biolabs since it's nearly useless anywhere else. NC maxes can kill many other maxes in the biolab, while all other maxes can kill lots of infantry EVERYWHERE else on the map. So TR and VS maxes will probably have high kill counts of infantry and low kill counts of other maxes.

It is really disingenuous to say they can only be used in biolabs I can pull a Scat at any point that is INDOORS and be highly effective:-
(1) Next to an indoor capture point at an outpost.
(2) At a tower where attackers are forced into close proximity, eg staircases.
(3) ALL base types including the Bio which offer plenty of opportunities for CQC.

[bpostal]

You gotta think like Zapp Branigan. If the killbots shut down after killing 65000 people, throw 65001 at 'em. Or use c4 with LA and bait 'em. If you can get one to chase you without OHK'ing your ass then try using the new AV turrets. They at least put the hurt on.

[Redshift]

Why are people arguing about a lack of range on the splatterMAX, no one uses MAX's at range, at any range where the TR MAX kills faster than an NC MAX you'd be better off using a carbine....

[BIGGByran]

Stats Needed:

1) Max Vs Max K/D (Dual AI Weapons ONLY)
2) Max Vs Inf K/D (Dual AI Weapons ONLY)

Day by day.

Everyone Please Twit it to Higby! I did and hope he hears us out.

I agree that NC Max are OP under 10m, but just sneeze damage >10m. While TR and VS MAX effectiveness doesn't diminish until roughtly outside of 30m.

[Lepalose]

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Max vs Max kills would not mean anything as well. NC pulls their AI max pretty much only in biolabs since it's nearly useless anywhere else. NC maxes can kill many other maxes in the biolab, while all other maxes can kill lots of infantry EVERYWHERE else on the map. So TR and VS maxes will probably have high kill counts of infantry and low kill counts of other maxes.

All these numbers don't really say anything of substance about the matter of discussion here. It worked for the tanks/the magrider because tanks are very evenly distributed over the whole map everywhere in all factions and all tanks can attack at long, medium and short range. The boundary conditions were basically the same, so you could compare statistical figures with ease. Since the NC max is used in totally different ways than the other two, that makes a meaningful statistical comparison impossible. Comparing TR and VS max would work though.

I see all three empires pull AI MAXes in the same places. The primary one being Biolabs, and the secondary one being Towers. This being universal for all empires, I think the numbers would be important regardless of your point on this matter. Furthermore, the data would actually be important either support or refute your claim here as well.

Analysis of data is not about the simplification of a matter, its about clarity. You say that the NC MAX is used differently; well I would say in the matter of killing enemies the end result is the same. Sure the way you go about it may vary, and data can show that - such as considering the range of kills.

Data will show how balanced (or imbalanced) the situation is, just as how they have dealt with the Magriders, then the Prowlers. Now of course I respect that there is asymmetric gameplay - so it is a question of how far off-even the gameplay is currently for the MAXes, and only the data can give us insight into that issue as well.

Simply then, whatever side of the NC MAX is OP issue you are on, you should want to have a look at the actual data.


And finally, what if not numbers and analysis is substantial to arguments on the NC MAX issue? Anecdotes? Come to understand "the plural of anecdotes is not data" and argue less.

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Max vs Max kills would not mean anything as well. NC pulls their AI max pretty much only in biolabs since it's nearly useless anywhere else. NC maxes can kill many other maxes in the biolab, while all other maxes can kill lots of infantry EVERYWHERE else on the map. So TR and VS maxes will probably have high kill counts of infantry and low kill counts of other maxes.

All these numbers don't really say anything of substance about the matter of discussion here. It worked for the tanks/the magrider because tanks are very evenly distributed over the whole map everywhere in all factions and all tanks can attack at long, medium and short range. The boundary conditions were basically the same, so you could compare statistical figures with ease. Since the NC max is used in totally different ways than the other two, that makes a meaningful statistical comparison impossible. Comparing TR and VS max would work though.

you do know we are asking for raw in game data right? when developing a game such as planetside 2 the devs balance the game using this data. so to say the numbers would be irrelevant is way off base.

how do you think they balance games?lol

[Silent Thunder]

You know there's a saying "Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all."
In other words, give us the raw data!

[Hamma]

Would love to see the raw data on this - I doubt we will though.

[Silent Thunder]

The sad thing is even with raw data I don't think these arguments would stop anyway. People would merely cherry pick whatever bits of the raw data support their stance. (One need look no further than the politics subform for this). However it still would be nice for the raw data to be out there for the few people who actually would do an objective analysis.

[mrmrmrj]

There is a very simple test to see if the scat max is OP. Are the majority of NC troopers running around in them? The answer is obviously no. They are a rare thing. They are a death sentence in the open field. They are good at one thing and one thing only: 5-10m combat. See a scat max? Fall back to 20m and kill it.

I have dual hacksaws with slugs. I spend less than 10% of my time in MAX because they just don't have the battle adaptability of HA. I have never seen a MAX crash in PS2 since I started playing in December.